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BOTC Focus Group: KU Sucks Edition

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 It's Sunflower Showdown week here at BOTC, so this week's Focus Group will probably take a bit of a harder edge as we prepare to see K-State take on that team we loathe down the river.  As always, feel free to participate in the comments.

This week's questions!

1. Because it's Sunflower Showdown week, tell the world when it was that you knew you'd be a K-State fan for life.

2. Hypothetical time: K-State beats KU this weekend, then loses all its games the rest of the season to go 5-7.  What is the coaching staff's fate in this scenario?

3. The weekend's Big 12 schedule is here (and it's pretty weak, overall).  What are you looking forward to seeing, other than K-State/KU?

4. We've had a couple players shooting their mouths off in the media this week.  Thoughts?

5. Tim Griffin and Lee Barfknecht have suggested divisional realignment of Big 12 teams this week.  What is one thing you would do to improve the Big 12?

If you're interested in purchasing "Jayhawks Suck" gear, please go to  I don't know who runs this site (so you're not paying us), but their cause is a worthy one, and it's probably worth it to at least buy a coffee mug to support their noble cause.

Anyway, on to the responses!


1.  Well, I think my defining moment would have to be my junior year

of college.  I was at a party in Manhattan shortly after KU beat

K-State in Lawrence.  We were all pretty depressed.  One of my friends

actually went on a hunger strike, and said he wouldn't eat again until

we won.  He made it a week (let's just say he wasn't hurting for extra

meat), but we played OU the following weekend and he had to give up.

Okay, so anyway - we're at this party and this creeper starts doing

the Rock Chalk chant.  I walk up to him and tried to hit him with my

right hand.  He grabbed it and held onto it.  I tried to hit him with

my left hand.  He grabbed it and held onto it also.  Apparently, I had

been drinking something that may have impaired not only my reaction

time, but also my decision making.  Normally, I wouldn't say I'm a

violent person.  Well, with both hands tied up by this Jayhawk idiot,

and my mind still set on hurting this d-bag... I bit him on his cheek.

People thought they knew how big of a K-State fan I was, but I think

that put my money where my mouth was... literally.

The story has been legend ever since.

2.  I think they will keep Prince either way.  I think that Tibesar

will be gone, and everyone else will probably get another year.

3.  Sorry, but being that it's the Sunflower Showdown... there's only

one thing on my mind.  I HATE KU!

4.  Yes, I wish the players would shut up until they prove their

superiority on the field.  But I can't blame them for hating KU.

5.  I think that would be the most fair thing to do.  I actually

pondered this idea on the way home from the game last week.  However,

I think it would kill K-State.  And, I think it would hurt the number

of people traveling to away games, and destroy long-time rivalries.  I

could see an East/West kind of thing.  K-State, Colorado, Nebraska,

Texas Tech, Texas, and Baylor make up the West.  KU, Missouri, Iowa

State, Oklahoma State, OU, and A&M make up the East.  That's just an

example.  For now that's more even, but who knows where teams will

stand in another 10 years.  I think it's probably best left alone.



1.  That would have been in 2002, my freshman year, at the K-State/USC game.  More specifically, it was about the time Terence Newman was returning a blocked PAT for two points.  That stadium was going freaking insane, as was I.  Prior to that, while I had enjoyed the games, I wasn't sure I had that much interest.  I had actually thought about playing golf on Saturday afternoons, because local football games have a marvelous way of emptying golf courses.  But I started going to the games and got hooked.  That was that, as they say.

2.  If this were to happen, I would really hope our administrators take the long view and look at the overall body of work this coaching staff, and Ron Prince in particular, has put together.  We would have a coach who, after three seasons, had a 17-20 record, one bowl game that resulted in a big loss, experienced constant turnover among assistants, recruited junior college players at a rate that is not sustainable, and only won one game in nine tries against the program's three primary rivals.

3.  Obviously I'll be watching Texas Tech/Texas intently.  As you'll see soon, I think this is pretty much the moment where the jury walks into the room, the judge says, "Will the defendant, Mike Leach, please rise" and we find whether Tech is ever going to live up to the hype.  I give Tech a legitimate shot in this game, but Texas seems to be on a mission this season.

4.  While I generally think "bulletin-board material" has more of an effect on the fans than it does the players -- you really shouldn't need extra motivation to get up for these games -- some of our guys need a muzzle.  Deon Murphy has had a spectacularly disappointing season, yet he's taking one to the crib, guaranteed?  Our defense would be a joke in the WAC, and yet when the game's over KU's going to wish they had recruited our team?  If you're going to talk smack, at least try to make it clever or something, or make damn sure you back up whatever outrageous claims you make.

5.  I'm probably going to write a dissertation on this subject in the near future, but suffice it to say, I don't believe divisional realignment is the issue.  Every possible alignment is going to have some problem that somebody is going to complain about.  I don't think we'll ever hear Husker fans shut up about losing their big rivalry game with Oklahoma.  If we get stuck with frackin' Iowa State as a "special" game, as Griffin suggests, I will probably never stop whining.

The issue is revenue sharing.  That's it, period.  We're not going to fix this conference by matchups.  We're going to fix it by making everybody better, and that means sharing our money equally.  Much, much more to come on this subject in the next month or so.


Note to self: Bailey bites.

  1. I became a K-State fan for life the first time I stepped foot on campus in Manhattan during my senior year of high school. Manhattan blew away any other campus I visited - Columbus, Oxford, Ames, Lawrence, Muncie (although Miami-Ohio's campus is nice, but just imagine K-State with nothing but Johnson County kids....).  Never before then did I have the slightest clue about K-State or its football team. I did however already have this stigma about KU even before I ventured to the state of Kansas. It was the school the dumb kids in high school went to because they wanted to go somewhere out of state further from home...
  2. I'd say it's not good. Most people's expectations/predictions at the beginning of the year were saying 5-7 or 6-6 with the loss to KU. A win there should mean bowl eligible. If Prince can't beat either Nebraska or lowly Iowa State after a win at KU, there wouldn't be any progress from a year ago and it's time to throw in the towel and shake things up for next year concerning our coaching staff.
  3. All others besides TT-UT should be cakewalks. No need to switch channel on any of those games at any time. TT-UT on the other hand should be a good one. Unless K-State magically wins the north, I hope the winner of that game goes undefeated and makes an appearance in the national title game. But I couldn't care less who that team is...
  4. I'd like to see more of that across the nation. It brings more passion, fire, and a true sense of rivalry. Although the trash-talking should be in a well-mannered tone, this isn't a Sunday church meeting either.
  5. I've been intrigued by this for quite some time now. Of all the proposals I've heard, I like the idea behind playing everybody in your conference once during the regular season. But in that scenario you'd have to set a limit to about 10 teams per conference so that we could still see good out of conference games with a few cupcakes thrown in too.

The problem I have with Barfknecht's (nice name btw) idea is that it is just a temporary solution. What happens when/if the power alignment shifts again? Do you reconfigure it again to make it fair? There's no realignment plan that would ever permanently work. Set equal budgets across the conference if you want to try a balancing act. That's the biggest problem right now.

TB: ksubailey, what's the quote about what your kids will say to you when they're mad at you?  That one is hilarious.

mystman995: I don't think revenue sharing is such a great idea. I think there should be a limit (as stated in my own response) to what schools may spend on sports. What to do with the rest? Here's an idea - put it back into the school. You know things like research money, better facilities, lower tuition, more scholarships...... What a noble concept right? Of the 50 million students at UT right now, you'd think at least one of them could figure out a cure for cancer, cold fusion, or a decent electric car with that kind of money thrown in there for research. Isn't that why people go to a university in the first place?

Our priorities are shot to hell, and you Mr. Pickens should be ashamed of yourself.

TB: Rick Reilly approves this message!

ksubailey: Oh yeah, my friend told me once that when I have kids, instead of getting mad at me and saying, "Mom, I hate you," they'll say, "Mom, I like KU."  And then I will drown them in a bathtub.  Maybe I am violent...

TB: KU week certainly brings out ksubailey's dark side.

mystman995: I'm not a fan of Rick Reilly, mainly because he's an arrogant asshat, but he does have a decent thought in his brain once in a while.

".....It will go mostly for the two biggest sports in Stillwater: football and football practicing...."



1. I got the "-itis" when I was at the KSU/OU game in 2000.  That was a blast.  Gameday was there, every day leading up to the game, SportsCenter had a short clip of KSU and OU highlights advertising the game (which was a 2:30 game on ABC...), and the excitement surrounding the game was palpable.  There was added vitriol because it was the first time Oklahoma had come to Manhattan after Stoops raided the staff.  While we ended up losing the game, it was still an amazing experience.  I've never heard that stadium so loud.

2. Honestly, if KSU wins, it will take a collapse of epic proportions to remove this staff if they beat KU.  I know that the parallel you can draw is Jim Wooldridge after beating KU in Lawrence in 2006, but Wooly beat KU in a lame duck year, and we knew that he was going to be removed if they didn't make the tournament.  Prince, if he beats KU in year three, it will get enough people off of his back that he can probably limp home with some dignity, and if they beat ISU at home, there's a good chance KSU goes to a bowl game.  I think this game is his "Get out of jail free" card for 2008.  I don't agree with it, but it's hard for me to see many scenarios where he's removed if he wins this game.

3. Texas/TTU.  I don't know who to root for in this one.  I'm not truly a 'fan' of either school, but Texas is kind of a 'feel-good' team this year, and I really like Mike Leach, so it would be nice to see him get over the hump so to speak.  I think it's just going to be a very entertaining game overall.

4. On one hand, you like to see your players have confidence.  On the other hand, you don't want to look stupid if you lose.  I'm not a big believer in 'bulletin board' motivation, and you really don't need any for this game, but I don't want our guys looking like idiots if they lose.  The local media around here definately has a KU bias, so those quotes will come back to bite them if they don't follow through.  Just ask Josh Freeman and Michael Beasley about that.

5. Restructure the TV deal.  If I'm not mistaken, the conference does revenue sharing for bowl games; I don't see why the TV deal should be any different.  In its current format, it definately favors the Texas schools because there are more TV sets down there.  Therefore, they'll be on TV more often, and they'll get more revenue.  Schools in the North division kind of get screwed because we just don't have the population that the South division has.  So, when they go to decide who to show on TV that week, they'll more than likely go with the South team because there are more sets.  I get that it's a business, but there's no reason that the conference shouldn't distribute that money evenly.  If we send two teams to the BCS, or if a team gets invited to a bowl game outside of the conference's allotment, they don't keep that money, so I don't see why they should get to keep the money because they're on TV more than the other teams.  It's just kind of a bush league way to run your conference.

I agree with mystman995 to a point; I think athletic spending has become completely egregious, and it's getting to the point where the "haves" are almost acting like a minor league to the pros while the "have nots" serve the same purpose in this money-making venture as the Washington Generals do to the Harlem Globetrotters...

That said, the system is what it is, and I fear that if we tell schools that they can only spend X amount of dollars on athletics, they will break off from the NCAA and create their own new administrative body where they can just hoard all the money they bring in and create 80,000 seat stadiums, athletes get paid, etc.  The NCAA walks a very fine line with the Texas', Floridas', Notre Dames', etc. of the world.  The second that group of schools goes out there and forms a thirty university conference (similar to the NBA, NFL, etc.), you'll see a scenario where all of the money, fans, etc. gravitate to them, and everyone else essentially becomes a D2 school.

Is that likely?  No.  However, we have to remember that the NCAA is not a mandatory body; schools elect to participate in it because they want to be in the biggest game in town.

mystman995: God I hope that doesn't happen - I already don't like to watch the NFL or NBA that much. Why would I bother with NFL-2 or NBA-2? You only go to minor league games because their cheap - not so much

Well it's not like that plan would be taking away money from the schools. It would just go to things like education - the reason the universities were created in the first place. K-State will never be able to bring in the type of money UT does. We simply don't have the fan base or the extreme number of alumni. I get it. I just don't like it.

I'm surprised there hasn't been major talk (or has there?) about certain schools leaving the NCAA to form their own super league. Collegiate players would most definitely get paid - and of course that would attract anybody who has ever put on a helmet at any level. Schools like USC, KU, and OU wouldn't have to hide the fact that they cheat and/or pay their players anymore....


1. I had the good fortune to be born into a K-State family, so my journey started at a young age. I think the moment it stuck for me that I would bleed purple the rest of my life was during the Colorado game when we tied them 16-16. I just remember it being ungodly cold, and I was only about 13 at the time. Everyone else went to the car, but my dad and I stayed and watched to the end. I could probably list about 100 other moments that would fit in this spot, but this one popped in my head first.

2. As long as we don't lose the rest of our games, I feel like Prince will still be here. Tibesar will be gone (or at least have his DC duties relinquished) and the rest of the staff may stay in place. That's what I think will happen, but not what I think should happen. I'm more in line with TB's response, you have to look at the constant staff turnover and the poor recruiting. If a miracle occurs and he wins 3 of the next four, he may have bought himself another bonus year besides next year.

3.'s Halloween weekend, so after the K-State/KU game, I'm heading to a party to either bask in the celebration, or drown the depression. I will keep an eye on the Tech and UT game of course, but other than that it will be a toss up. I have a feeling Tech will pull it out, fwiw.

4. I don't fall under the belief that bulleting board material gives players the motivation to kick your ass. That being said, I also fall under the old school belief that you talk with your play on the field. Spouting off this kind of b.s. does nothing other than make you look like an idiot in the media, especially if you don't follow up. Not sure if this fits in the same category, but I also enjoy seeing opposing teams that jump up and down on the home field's mid-field logo get their asses kicked on the scoreboard. Those actions speak volumes of the type of coach a team has.

5. No re-alignment is necessary, because domination by certain schools usually go in cycles. Yes, OU and Texas are great, but what happens if Mizzou doesn't go back to being the same team we knew 5 years ago? I'm curious to see what would happen if a "budget cap" was enacted, much like mystman suggests. I know the big university president's would never approve it, much like they won't approve a playoff. It's sad when the NCAA operates much like the political scene of this country. Rules that should be enacted to help the less fortunate are vetoed because the rich hold all the power.

The NCAA (or just the Big XII to start) should enact a cap on athletic budgets. If a school goes over the cap, they pay a capital fine that is spread out amongst the other 11 teams. While there are too many loop holes to list here, it's at least a good idea to start with.

ksubailey: Players need to learn from history and try not to repeat it.  When has

proclaiming how many points, yards, touchdowns, or whatever paid off for anyone?  I can't think of a single time except for Babe Ruth pointing over the fence.  Seriously, great players don't talk like that.  You're right, EMAW... they need to prove it on the field.

Panjandrum: I don't think anyone has openly talked about it because of the controversy it would cause.  Also, the start up costs would be pretty heavy, and you have to create all of the rules, etc.  It's a process that would probably take a lot of time to get going, and obviously, you'd have to get all of the TV contracts in place as well...

That, to me, is the only roadblock at this point.  You have major entities (TV Networks, Radio Networks, etc.) that pay BIG money for media.  If some of these schools were to bolt, I'm sure CBS, Fox, ABC/ESPN, etc. would be breathing down their necks because of the billions they've spent.  However, contracts lapse, and if there's ever a moratorium on these TV deals getting done, the conspiracy theorist in me says that a set of teams will bolt.  What the criteria would be, I don't know, but like a high stakes poker game, I'm sure the buy-in would be huge, and only a handful of universities would be able to play in the game.  In fact, from our conference, I'd only think UT, NU, OU, and A&M probably have the budgets for it.

There is a market for stuff like this though.  With the Big Ten Network, you've got 24 hour coverage of one conference all the time.  The infrastructure for something like this is being laid right now...and I think it's just a matter of time before something takes place so the "haves" make sure their place in the pecking order is solidified.  You see this today with Pearlman up at NU; he's probalby the most staunch detractor of revenue sharing, and it's because they are the only school in the North that has the budget and national following to come out ahead in the TV money.  NU, with their falling reputation and recent bad publicity, needs to maintain whatever competitive advantage they have.

I'm rambling on this and throwing out conspiracty theory, but the NCAA needs to be cautious when implementing a 'cap' with these schools because there isn't anything out there that says they have to stay with the NCAA or they no longer get to play sports anymore.

As I've already kind of alluded to, EMAW, I'm not sure we want to mandate anything.  There has to be a vote to get it done, and I think it has to be 9 or 10 teams to approve it.  At this point, you're going to have a block of schools that say no because they come out ahead in the TV revenue.

The Big 12 will not tell Texas what UT needs to do.  Texas will tell the Big 12 what the conference needs to do because, and I'm being serious, we need them more than they need the Big 12.  The second they decide they want to make themselves a free agent, you'd bet the major conferences would be falling all over themselves to add a new crown jewel to their conference.

This is the reality of a K-State fan, Vanderbilt fan, or a Northwestern fan, etc.  We're a small budget school in a big conference.  While I totally believe revenue sharing is a good idea for the conference as a whole, mandating what these schools can and can't do is a big mistake IMO.  The Big Televen is holding out for Notre Dame (You just know they are...), but if Nebraska were to become available, and they aren't dominating the ultra-competitive Big 12, and they could do better in the Big Ten...

I mean, I'm just throwing out hypotheticals here, but in this conference, the tail wags the dog, and not the other way around.

TB: And it is exactly this reality that makes me cheer when the big four schools in the Big 12 fall on hard times.  I'm thinking Oklahoma in the mid-to-late 1990s, Nebraska under Bill Callahan, Texas under John Mackovic, and Texas A&M under Dennis Franchione.  Frankly, for just these reasons, I hope Bo Pelini is a bust at Nebraska, because a prolonged football depression in Nebraska would cause significant regression in that program.  The fact is, if things are ever going to change in the Big 12, one of the big four is going to have to undergo a prolonged period of really bad football.  For the rest of this, the problem is that they often only make one coaching mistake, which they can throw money at and fix.  But if Nebraska were to continue on its current pattern for another four or five seasons, they might finally realize that a safety net -- in the form of equal revenue sharing -- is a good idea.

I'm not really intending to pick on Nebraska here, just noting they seem to be the most likely candidate at this point.  Texas A&M is right there at the front with them, although they seem to be making some strides this season under Mike Sherman.

mystman995: No please, pick on Nebraska all you want. But it is KU week, so try and pick on them more.

TB: We got sidetracked by this revenue-sharing discussion.  I can't really pick on KU too much there, because Lew Perkins is on record as supporting equal revenue sharing and KU doesn't have one of the bigger conference budgets.

But by all means, let's talk about how much we hate KU.  I'll start.

Kansas Jayhawks Football Chant: RIP HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF! (via 14691)

mystman995: See at least when there was controversy over our "We're going to beat the hell out of you" chant - it wasn't every single student dropping the f-bomb in a phrase stolen from a movie. That is CU level right there.

I'm also surprised the KU fans don't pull an A-rod bush league stunt by bringing their own whistles to the game trying to stop plays....

ksubailey: Don't give them any ideas.

Last year, a little kid dressed as a KU football player came and trick-or-treated at my house, and I gave him a baggy full of dog poop instead of candy.

TB: You didn't.

ksubailey: No, no, I didn't... but you can imagine what it would be like if I did.

That was stolen from a movie.  I apologize, very KU of me.

TB: Yeah, I think that one is even older than The Waterboy.  Shame on you.

mystman995: Any Billy Madison reference is OK by me.

.....Stop starting at me SWAN!

ksubailey: Is it sad that I take pride in the fact that you would actually believe I gave dog poop to a KU trick or treater?

TB: I actually pulled a Billy Madison reference out the other day at Rock M Nation.  Is there an obscene cheer from that movie we could use at our football games, so we could be just like KU?

TB: You bit a guy on the face!  I repeat that -- in a John Stewart voice, on the day after Dick Cheney shot a guy in the fact -- "You bit a guy............ON THE FACE!"

But no, I know you well enough to know that you wouldn't give a child dog poop, even if he was wearing a KU jersey.

Now if that person had been 18+ years of age, he'd have lillies on his chest now.

ksubailey: That's a good one, TB.  Nibb High football rules!

I don't know if there's a cheer we could use, but KU ought to get four of their "mancers" to spell out "D-I-C..." like on The Longest Yard.

EMAW: Haha. My wife and I have already bought the gross orange and black peanut butter candy to give to all the kids who dress up as either KU football players or cheerleaders (though I'm not sure how you tell the difference.) And no, I'm not kidding. We've designated that as the "bad kid" candy.

ksubailey: You're a hero in my book.

You know, they make Ex-Lax in a chocolate bar form... do you think
those KU jerks would notice?


mystman995: Wow - we are talking about little kids you know!

Anyway, it's not the kid's fault (yet) if they are born into being a Jayhawk - it's the parents. I wish there was a way to force the parents to eat the ex-lax........

Just got this forwarded to me:

Q: Why do KU students hang their diplomas from their rearview mirrors?
A: So they can park in the handicapped spot.

ksubailey: Love it.