K-State Slate: 1.10.12
by TB on Jan 10, 2012 7:02 AM CST
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K-State Basketball
Frank Martin talked about the importance of keeping his team's emotions in check to avoid the roller coaster that leads to losses.
That will be necessary this week because, after a big win over Missouri on Saturday, K-State welcomes another top-10 team to the Octagon of Doom tonight when Baylor comes to Manhattan.
K-State moved up to No. 18 in both college basketball polls after splitting with KU and Missouri last week.
SB Nation's Bracketology pegs K-State as a four seed, in a grouping that I would take right now and run with. First-round game against Harvard, with only the winner of Vanderbilt/BYU between K-State and a Sweet 16? Yes, please.
K-State Football
Tyler Lockett and B.J. Finney are freshman all-Americans according to FWAA, making K-State the only school other than USC to have two players on the freshman team.
This isn't K-State specific, but I'll go so far as to say it's required reading for all college football fans. As tempting as it may be, don't get involved with recruits on social media. Leave the recruiting to the coaching staff.
Big 12 Basketball
Oklahoma State knocked off Oklahoma last night in Bedlam on Big Monday.
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I was at a sports bar and grille for dinner last night
And I was able to watch the entire pre-game of the national championship. Let’s just say that Fox did a much better job for the cotton bowl than ESPN did for the game. Only a couple of taped packages before kick off and even those were kinda lacking. I used to despise Fox because of how their FSN networks are set up and how difficult it can be to find games at time, but they have earned a lot more respect from me after these last few days.
I have always preferred Fox's newtork's coverage of sports
over TWWL. Better commentators, graphics, and less B.S. And with college sports, they actually show and promote the things that make college sports so important: the fans, the students, and the band. Yeah, I’m a band kid, but the band/spirit squads are what sets college sports separate from anything else, IMO.
I appreciated the band coverage on Fox as well
The Deathstar turned college football coverage into a cloned version of NFL coverage, with every moment not in a game in studio.
Friday night brought home what I missed about college football coverage when I was younger (and K-State was terrible, but games were still fun to go to, at least until halftime).
by apewatcher on Jan 10, 2012 9:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Probably what I hate the most about TWWL's coverage
The Deathstar turned college football coverage into a cloned version of NFL coverage, with every moment not in a game in studio.
I don’t care what talking heads have to say, especially when they repeat themselves so often.
who has has the best GIF of a talking head?
screw Deathstar!
oh hail the Purple and White
as far as the band coverage goes, let's think about a few things
I saw the comment earlier last week that the Cotton bowl actually has a generous time allowed for both bands during halftime. Often times Bowls feature HS bands (I remember the 1996 Cotton being that way anyway) at halftime.
Secondly there was no other game being played that night that no one had another game to talk about, which is the majority of what viewers want to be caught up on at halftime. I’m sorry but I’d rather watch another bowl game’s highlights than even my own band at halftime…it’s just not that entertaining, though I am glad the KSU band got some face time.
My point is, I think Fox + Cotton Bowl + more band coverage had more to do with a schedule and the Bowl’s schedule.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
They still catch viewers up during halftime
but instead of repeating themselves, they show a few minutes of band (split between schools) at halftime. It’s not a huge feature of the broadcast, but its better than completely ignoring them like ESPN does.
And my point is, overall, Fox coverage includes showing things that actually appeal to college football (and basketball) like students and bands.
Another point-to the kids who get that face time it’s huge. Maybe you are one of the people who think the band isn’t entertaining, but there are and equal amount who do including parents and family (many of whom are also alums) of those kids. A bowl game (and games in general) aren’t just about showing us the players, there are showcasing the university too. Otherwise its just an ESPN NFL/NBA-style broadcast that doesn’t relate to college at all. These kids work harder at being students then most athletes, don’t really get rewarded for their efforts, and still work hard. Its nice they get some love too.
/rantover
oh I get it, and all valid points
I’m just saying as a product band time doesn’t exactly help increase viewership. I would agree, if I was a business exec, I would try and work the band in if I could, but it wouldn’t be on the top of my list. My point is, the Cotton Bowl and Fox had more of an opportunity to make it happen which I think might be getting overlooked here. I’m not necessarily trying to stick up for ESPN here.
Look I watch our band at the majority of our home games if I’m not trying to meet up with someone elsewhere in the stadium. And they are exactly what they’re billed as: halftime entertainment. But let’s be honest, only a small fraction of people buy season tickets, tune into a broadcast FOR the band. The majority of the people are there FOR a football game, and the band is merely halftime entertainment.
Honestly I can’t comment on ESPN’s halftime shows during bowl season as I only watched Big 12 (including a little TCU and WVU) bowls on ESPN3.com who’s halftime show I know is separate from the real halftime shows. So I can’t comment accurately on how “full of themselves” ESPN was.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
But your point is not true
as it is not “just” the Cotton Bowl and its not “just” at halftime. It’s any Fox broadcast. Think about when you’re watching a game (football or basketball), and compare how many times Fox shows the band/student section versus ESPN. It’s a big difference, like huge. And at every major football game (bowls, champ games, “showcases”) Fox shows some band before the game and at halftime as a cut between broadcast and commercial. And it is a bit of marketing ploy, that even though, like you said, the vast majority of people are watching to see the football, seeing the band/cheer/students makes it more like actually being at the game…a good selling point.
And yes, the show at halftime is just entertainment, but the band is much more important during the game than most realize. Just ask HCBS, and its not just pandering. Why do you think he fought for so long to keep the KSUMB on the 50 right behind the opposing team? Its because of the obvious noise, but also the force of 300 people in unison cheering/chanting/and generally being a nuisance.
Yeah, I was in the band and partial, but there is something to be said for the effect that a good band/student section has on a college football game (and, to a lesser extent, a bball game). It’s what sets a college game so far apart from an NFL or NBA game, and that IS something a good Exec would realize and try to capitalize on.
^For levity^
I realized that I was getting rather upset of something rather trivial.
I don’t back down from my point, but I promise I’m not trying to be mad or too argumentative!!!
What makes the Cotton Bowl halftime GREAT ??
Bands, smands. IT IS THE KILGORE RANGERETTES !!
oh hail the Purple and White
A TRADITION SINCE AT LEAST THE MID 1960S
oh hail the Purple and White
I was thinking of you when I saw them lined up on the field during the pre-game festivities!
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Jan 10, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Shrugs
If they just played recorded band songs I’d be happy…:)
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Not really
It’s not like the Call Hall women ever pay us on time anyway for when we restock their freezers.
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
NEIN! NYET!
I’ve been to games where there was not such thing as recorded music except for visiting high school dance teams** and K-State only had the band to motivate the crowd. And it worked extremely well. The last season in Ahearn for instance had dB in the 100-110 range for almost every game.
The use of recorded music has taken the band out of the equation and it has diminished the experience IMHO. I’ve only been to one game (1st time we beat KU) in recent years in Bramlage that compares to the experience in the 80’s when the band and cheerleaders were used to motivate the crowd during a time out.
The band playing Peter Gunn followed by rousing cheers, it doesn’t get much better than that.
Now days, it would take a little bit to get back to the non-muzac version, but I’d love it.
**An infamous incident happened in Ahearn when one of the local dance squads started their music not knowing that the KSU students had alternative lyrics. As the music begins to play the KSU student section yelled the alternative lyrics, so the dance squad sponsor stopped the music and the dance squad was wondering what was going on. At this point the dance squad sponsor started the music from the beginning with the alternative lyrics again shouted by the KSU students at appropriate times, at least this time music continued so that the students had less opportunity to participate in the song.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Good story
and the OOD, from the stories I’ve heard, has generally taken a lot of the fun and energy out of K-State BBall games.
Side note: do you remember the name of the song?
Mony, Mony by Billy Idol.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Good grief
Just how old are you?
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Younger than Furnance.
I’m relating stories from the last season in Ahearn so I’m at least (2011-1987 =) 24.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
It is not the Octodoom that takes the energy out, it is relying on the muzac to keep the crowd motivated.
Crowds need breaks in cheering but a good band director and cheer leading squad knows when to take breaks and when not to.
In the first years of the Octodoom, it was loud and fun with lots of interaction between the various elements of K-State fandom.
It is different now with the students no longer being on the front row, but it can still be loud and involve the entire fan base.
Now we have the stupid kissing cam or the young Wildcat fan cam. Why don’t we just try to keep the crowd interested in what goes on rather than getting on camera?
GET. OFF. LAWN. /rant over.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Being in the band and seeing it from that side
and discussing it with the band director, the Fan Experience people (the ones who are in charge of all the canned music and camera stuff) are in charge of telling the band when they can and cannot play. That’s why the director wears a headset, that’s who it goes to. There are plenty of times we would like to play and can’t because they want to run an ad or promotion of some kind. However, sometimes we just don’t listen and play anyway, though they really don’t like that (and to be fair, that happens more often at FBall games than BBall games).
Point is, we want to play, and be involved, and help “pump up the energy,” we just often aren’t allowed to.
Maybe if we complain loud enough ....
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
I realize that technically the "front row"
would be the folding chairs on the side of the court…
but YES HUH students are still on the front row! They are in the two middle sections on the east side of Bramlage, from front row to Loge boxes. (unless I am missing something in your comment)
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Jan 10, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
When the Octodoom first opened,
the students went from the court to the top. You could have some good conversations with the officials and such during warm ups.
Seats next to the court were GA and usually had some of the rowdiest students, although that was a matter of degree more than type difference.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
Those court seats were killer. Sat there for a ku/KSU game.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Jan 10, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Never had 'em for a KU game but I had front row seats for quite a few other games.
Used to have a tape of a game with me on it.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
^This^
But then, I was in the Pride when Phil Hewitt. I remember times when people went to get their concessions before the half so they could see the show (during the Ellis Rainsburger era, for example). Since I was end the band during the Jim Dickey era, people were still often interested in the game before the half, but we still had a following.
I still remember Ronnie Lott telling us we were outdoing their band from the stands (yes, at that time opposing bands occasionally went to AWAY games).
by apewatcher on Jan 10, 2012 7:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
look, I don't want the band to go away at all, I'm just trying to give
honest outside perception. Right, wrong or indifferent it is what it is. It’s like trying to describe to a life long KU fan who grew up in Northeast KS that outside of the top northeast (probably less than) 1/4 of the state (using Topeka as the farthest SW corner of a rectangle) that anyone outside of that footprint doesn’t acknowledge the KU/MU rivalry as the top one…
Anyway, I honestly can’t compare ESPN to FOX “quantity of crowdshots” b/c I’m a season ticket holder, and do how do you quantify that anyway? Sit with a stopwatch through a game and time how long they hold on a crowd shot? I like crowd shots as much as the next person, but when I tune in for a football game, I don’t let that make/break my impression of the broadcast. I’m tuning in for something else.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I liked Fox's mothership broadcast of the Cotton Bowl
but I couldn’t stand Gus’ color analyst. He was pretty lame. I’ve always found their FSN broadcasts lacking behind the rest, and wasn’t totally blown away by the few FX broadcasts I caught (except they can pass).
I certainly am fine with Big12 and Fox being partners though.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Agreed
I was dissapointed when I found out fox was brodcasting the game, and then I thought our pre game was going to be tmz and entertainment. I’m glad we got fox now after watching the great job they did before and at half time. Plus Gus Johnson was calling the game.
K-S-U ! we'll carry thy banner high
K-S-U ! long long may thy colors fly
by motown wildcat on Jan 10, 2012 8:59 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Fox has always been good about showing actual festivities that are happening at the game
TWWL likes to run their own shows and things to pump up their sponsors
everything about ESPN is about THEM, and promoting their ancillary shows
or perpetuating the “narrative” for the next week, season, etc. They simply don’t do journalism anymore. Period. End of story. They do narrative. Their narrative. I simply refuse to watch their “talking head” shows anymore.
oh hail the Purple and White
My favorite shows were the the ones detailing tactics
I don’t care about the rest of them.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
In all fairness to ESPN....
…I don’t think there has ever been much actual journalism in sports reporting. It has always been about narrative, and, after all, sports is entertainment. But in entertainment, the narrators exert more control over the product than pretty much anyone else. Sort of like the reviewers of Broadway shows
The Deathstar has become the ultimately rotten evolution of the kingmaking sports media.
by apewatcher on Jan 10, 2012 12:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Keith Jackson was a sports journalist
there are a few others from the 60s that lasted into the 80s. It was different then. (Notice I said different, not better, because the former is an observation, the latter a judgment that is like arguing which is prettier, blue or red – a futile endeavor).
oh hail the Purple and White
well duh!
because Purple is obviously prettier than both blue and red!
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Jan 10, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
I really liked seeing the bands and the Cotton bowl dance brigade
You would NEVER have seen that with those scum from Conneticut running the show.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
I got excited knowing we'd be on Fox for that very reason
They always show some of pregame and some of halftime. They always do it for the bowls, and even did it for the B1G champ game this year. Wisky has a hellava band…
Agree here with everyone
FOX does a much better job than ESPN, which has become a Coca-Cola-type brand simply selling itself and its hosts/reporters/analysts/announcers as bigger-than-life celebrity personalities. ESPN has become a cottage industry for selling trumped-up D-list “celebrities” masquerading as sports personalities (Colin Blowhard, er Cowherd, step right up) as somehow being culturally relevant.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
Saw the bit about how Liberty Mutual ignored the top vote getter to award their coach of the year to Les Miles...
…oooops.
Seriously, reaching an underrated regular season by replacing disciplined 5 star athletes with other 5 star athletes? And why exactly did we vote again?
by apewatcher on Jan 10, 2012 8:55 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Undefeated, not underrated.
Stupid iPhone.
by apewatcher on Jan 10, 2012 8:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
We did get the "Rally Award"
for having the most voters for our coach, which also includes $10,000 for the scholly fund.
fan vote counts for 20% of the final decision.
by WillieWannabe on Jan 10, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
which in essense, means dick...
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
AP and Coaches Polls out
as of 9AM — from cbssports.com
Cats 15 in AP and 16 in Coaches, Arkansas is 5 in both. The Cats dropped below Baylor, Michigan, and Michigan State in AP, and those plus OU and Houston in Coaches.
I must say though, if you had told me at the beginning of the year
that we would finish the season second in the Big 12, top 20 in the polls, and with a trip to the Cotton Bowl…I, thee of eternal optimism, would have thought you were nuts! What a great year for our guys, for our school, and for propelling both back into national prominence. So many things to be thankful for!! Go Cats!!!
by jtarkman on Jan 10, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Undoubtedly
I’m a little sad the Cats aren’t higher, but still what a season!
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Especially since we could beat Michigan and Michigan State, and had already beat Baylor.
The team done good and were mostest fun to watch.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
I know that Disney/ABC/ESPN
has the big money when it comes to broadcasting sports, but when the Big 12 contracts come up, I really hope that FOX, CBS, or NBC comes up with a better deal. I know NBC is starting its own 24-hour sports network so they may be willing to shell out some serious dough to get a major college conference deal to showcase (with national brands like UT and OU).
I really wouldn’t mind getting out of the shadow of TWWL, though UT’s Longhorn Network really complicates matters. Even though it’s just Tier 3 rights, I assume ESPN will try to exert as much influence as possible to retain as many rights as they can.
"I assume ESPN will try to exert as much influence as possible to retain as many rights as they can."
I hope the conference makes the bastards pay. Between keeping OSU out of the national title game, and, I believe, keeping the Cats out of the Sugar bowl, it seems to me ESPN is trying to run the conference down as much as possible to make its breakup as inevitable as they seem to think it is.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
That's why I really hope NBC or FOX really makes a strong push
NBC has the power, money, and clout to go toe-to-toe with TWWL, even over FOX. Heck, they continue to keep the Olympics, and outbid for some of Nascar over ESPN and FOX.
I really think a Big 12-2 partnership with NBC, and its proposed new channel, would really be good for both parties. Not to mention, it would make things easier to possibly bring in Notre Dame in some way. which would be a HUGE win for the conference.
Very good points
I hope you’re right!
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Decent take on the Cotton Bowl
from over at Grantland.
I thought this line was money:
Early on, when Arkansas and K-State were still attempting to outsmart one another by deploying the least-effective aspects of their offenses, Gus Johnson tried to sell the game’s low yardage as evidence of an LSU-Alabama-style defensive slugfest. In reality, though, K-State’s receivers couldn’t catch and Arkansas refused to pass.
Meanwhile, Curtis Kitchen offers up his take on the year just past and the year coming up. Like me, he worries whether all those nail-biting conference wins in ’11 can be replicated in ’12.
I think Kitchen kind of misses it (regarding expectations) ...
Nobody is going to be expecting to replicate winning all those games by a TD or less. If KSU gets in that number of those games again, there will be more losses.
I think the optimism comes from the expectation that the team will improve (with another year for all the returnees) such that there won’t be all those one-score games. Kitchen does enumerate reasons why that won’t be easy, which is good. But then re-iterates that winning all those close games shouldn’t be expected. Well, nobody is expecting that.
For me, I think there is a good chance that the team will be better and will still come up short of a 10 win season. But if our Big12 opponents can’t figure out a way to deal with Klein’s running game, or can figure it out but just can’t handle it altogether (unlike Arkansas), then I can see another huge season. With many fewer one-score results.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Jan 10, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
I'm going to "hope" for a ten win season, but I'll expect nine.
Given that we’ll get three non-con home games (including Miami, North Texas, and some FCS rummy), and I will presume that we get Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma State, and Tech at home, I think we’re looking at eight good wins. Baylor will undoubtedly be taking a step back, and I don’t know what we’ll see out of Iowa State, so I think you can squeeze out nine wins in that slate. I’m presuming we’ll get OU, TCU, and WVU on the road, so I’m just going to guess that we’ll probably lose most of those game. TCU seems like a toss-up to me, but I have no idea. I think they’ll be pretty good.
Bring on the Cats - Our Site
@PJ_BOTC - My Twitter
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
TCU scares me
Patterson is a great coach and we are unfamiliar with them. If WVU is allowed to join the Big-12 in time for next season as intended then they won’t exactly be a pushover, either, not with Geno Smith back and a year in Holgorsen’s system under the team’s belt. I hate Landry Jones coming back to OU, particularly in that we get them in Norman. Nor do I like Diaz not getting hired off as a head coach somewhere else. Texas’ D physically whipped our offense’ ass in that game; that was as near a domination as possible. There will be no dropoff there and the UT offense should at least be a bit better.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
UT is still going to struggle mightily on offense. History dictates under Mack that unless they have an NFL QB, they are awful.
There’s no in between for Texas. They need stellar QB play to be decent on offense. They don’t have anyone on their roster.
My guess for UT next year is that they’ll be nails on defense but horrendous on offense. I think they’ll cap out at eight games in conference and maybe nine after a bowl game. Ash sucks, McCoy sucks, and no true freshman will be able to beat Kansas State in Manhattan.
Bring on the Cats - Our Site
@PJ_BOTC - My Twitter
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
I should append that for Major Applewhite. But he was just a lion.
Bring on the Cats - Our Site
@PJ_BOTC - My Twitter
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
He got eaten alive in MHK, even as good a college player as he was, as a freshman.
Then we turned around and crash-test-dummied him in Austin the next year.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Jan 10, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
First game doesn't really count, he got hurt and his whiny back-up came in
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
And they played against
far more ferocious K-State defenses at the same time.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
I agree, I think we get one more easy year out of UT
Beyond that I don’t think we can keep expecting a win. A lot of 2012 has to do with assuming it’s a home game as well.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Our offense needs another running back to pick up the slack
I know everyone loves Hubert because of his scrappy, very K-State-like “no one expected anything from me, but I’m proving them wrong” story, but while his heart, toughness and effort are commendable he isn’t a game-breaker, a tough, short-yardage back or consistent enough (note the long drought from the Mizzou game until Iowa State where he was very under-productive). Not saying he shouldn’t be the starter, but we either need a big, strong back for those short-yardage and goal-line situations or we need another back to complement Hubert as a two-headed duo. I’m hoping DeMarcus Robinson finally steps up and meets his potential this year. By the middle of the year until the Iowa State game (when Hubert came up huge) our running game pretty much consisted of Klein, Klein and more Klein. Thus we struggled on the ground against Texas, the first half against Iowa State, and then in the bowl game. Part of this is also our offensive line got physically handled against UT and Arkansas. Hopefully we get a medical hardship for Foketi and the offseason allows the interior line to get bigger and stronger.
That said, I’m pretty much on board with everything you mentioned there, Itchy.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
And better offensive tackles
Clark should be good, but the tackles weren’t ever good in pass protection, and Hubert can’t be the starter next year.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Aufner did well
but Hanson was always the liability. Though he wouldn’t have been there had Foketi not gotten hurt. I hope we get him back, and some of the younger guys step up. There is a deep group at the bottom that redshirted this year, including Boston Stiverson and Cody Whitehair that should really push for minutes.
might note that Boston and Cody's names were mentioned in the bowl prep
practices as “starting to stand out” similar to BJ Finney’s name getting dropped last year at the same time.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I too was surprised in teh quantity as compared to last year
It was literally like 4 names
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Yes, we need someone at a co-starter level with Hubert next year ...
who hopefully has significantly more game-breaking ability. What’s the status of Robinson?
by Itchy n Scratchy on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
I think that's a pretty fair assessment
Hubert should still be a nice solid back, but I too hope DeMarcus Rob is the compliment back that might help provide a nice tandem like the days when Eric Hickson and Mike Lawrence had to share duties.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
without dissecting the schedule, pre-season reports, recruiting class, spring ball, etc.
Like I do in Augusts…my gut tells me to set the regular season expectations at 9-3 to be reasonable.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
My hope is that all those "nail-biters"
turn into solid wins, one’s where there is no doubt going into the fourth quarter.
Biggest point for me is the defense. Kitchen (and a lot of us around here) talked about what the Cats are losing on D, especially Garrett, Guidry, Kibble, Voelker, Lamur, and Hartman. And while initially it looks like losing this group is a big hit, I don’t see it that way. What is lost is senior leadership, replaced by ABrown, Tre Walker, and Ty Zimmerman (last two will be juniors, but are already team leaders). What that unit gains is a group of younger guys with more talent than who they are replacing, no offense intended toward those departing seniors. Also retained are both Meshack Williams and Adam Davis, who will bookend the D-line, and Vai Lutui who was the starter all year at DT. Adding in to that mix are Ian Seau, Laton Dowling, Sam Harvill (greyshirt), Daryl Blackmon, Xavier Gates, and many more. We have a lot of youth, that with another year of experience should be even better. And the Defensive unit will, overall, be much improved from last year providing HCBS finds a suitable replacement for Tysyn at safety.
In the end, we can talk all we want now, but we wont know for sure what we’ll be seeing next year until the spring game, and even then that’s just a good taste and not the whole thing…
Kibble and Lamur will be so tough to replace.
Kibble proved himself as a very reliable tackle, and Lamur offered us a tremendous amount of flexibility in the passing game. His unique skill set allowed us to essentially play a 4-3 and a 4-2-5 at the same time. He was a more natural fit as a linebacker, but his pass defense skills as a linebacker were excellent given his size and those types of matchups.
Garrett was as sure a tackler as we’d find anywhere. No one can replace that.
Hartman, with his inconsistency, was still a solid leader on that defense. There has to be a reason the coaching staff stuck with him during his struggles, and that’s a red flag in the sense that what was behind him must have been awful, or he brought something to the field that no one else did that we didn’t see.
I think the linebacking corp, overall, will most likely be very good-to-great with Walker and Brown. We’ll see who steps in and replaces Lamur. The corners are going to be very, very, very good as well with Malone and Chapman. Zimmerman will be very solid back there in the secondary, and Meshak, Davis, and a potential assortment of other players could do some very nice things at DE. I’m hoping for a continuation of a JUCO DT recruiting haul. I like Hollingshed a lot, but he’s just one guy. We need more.
We still need a few key JUCO pieces at DT, DE, and potentially at safety for depth, competition, and potential starters. Otherwise, I like what we have on the front-line. However, there’s still a whole lot of youth on that defense that could get burnt by the WVU’s, OU’s, etc.
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I actually think that some of that youth is going to be beneficial
There is some good athletic talent there that just needs to be groomed. JoeBob and Mo have shown they are good at developing D-Linemen, and there is currently and abundance of returners on the roster.
LB corps is much weaker in the depth department, but with ABrown and Tre leading that unit its not falling next year, even without Lamur and his pass-coverage skills.
I think we agree that the biggest area of concern is safety. Man, I wish Matt Pearson had another year! Tysyn was the unquestioned leader of that unit for two or three years and I think that gave him the nod over some younger but maybe more talented guys. I think we haven’t seen all of what’s there because they’ve been hiding behind Hartman for so long. I am ready to see who shows up this spring…
The D-line is my biggest concern
KSU always seems to find safeties, but to beat the biggest foes next year, the Cats MUST have a pass-rush and at least as good a pair of DTs as they had this year.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Well half of that tandem is back
with Vai Lutui. He just needs a partner.
Really, the Cats return 3 starting (or starting quality) D-Linemen in Williams, Adam Davis, and Vai Lutui. Ryan Mueller also played meaningful minutes on passing downs and as a spell on d-end
I actually think the d-line might step up a bit this year
Kibble is a big loss because he constantly was absorbing two blockers. But we have Bo Tillman and Daryl Blackmon who were recruited from JUCO in last year’s class, plus Harvill and Lamonte Clark and Xavier Gates. From those five, plus Hollingshed (sp) there should come another starter, plus quality depth. I’d like a little more depth behind Meshak and Davis (Mueller and Marquel Bryant?) and a solid – if not superior – replacement for Lamur at OLB. Having Ty back at safety should help things on the deep end, but we definitely need to hit the JUCOs in this class for Hartman’s replacement (Dante Barnett? Morgan Burns?) and depth.
Garrett is a loss in terms of toughness, great tackling ability and just leadership. But Chapman should slide into his slot and provide adequate pass coverage.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
I saw Tillman on the short clip
Curtis Kitchen posted of the celebration after the A&M game. So if he left, it has to have been fairly recently.
Maybe it was Blackmon then?
Or maybe I should just stop paying attention to internet rumors.
No, you could be right
I was just pointing out what I saw back in November.
They are both still listed on the official roster
on K-Statesports.com
The staff and web guys over there to a pretty good job of keeping that thing updated when players leave. I mean, Bryce was gone the week after he left.
Don't forget Gates
Or Blackman if he can put on some weight. I don’t know if Clark made it to campus and redshirted, but he should be in the mix and we have a 300-pounder named Hollingshed coming in as a JuCo transfer.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
Harvill and Clark both greyshirted, last I heard
there will be close to a half dozen greyshirts coming in this spring.
And I definitely havent forgotten Gates, as I said to CT-K-State, see my “nail-biters” post above. There is a huge depth of young and JUCO guys on the roster that redshirted or didnt play.
Yes, Snyder and his staff really attacked fixing
the incredibly porous 2010 team’s defensive line in last February’s recruiting class. Tons of d-linemen, both JUCO, incoming freshman and greyshirt. There has to be a decent starter in there somewhere if not through sheer numbers.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Harvill apparently had a heck of an injury (leg?). That's why he grayshirted.
If he can get up to around 275, I think he’d made a terrific 3T DT. I don’t know if he’ll ever have the bulk to become a NT, but just his build and unbelievable strength make him a very intriguing prospect at the 3T.
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Pretty sure I heard that Clark was
no longer with the team. I could be imagining things, but that really sticks out.
I believe Clark is gone as well.
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I know of Gates, but I don't know a tremendous amount about him. Is he on scholarship?
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I believe he was a walk-on this year
He had a strange recruiting experience coming out of Pennsylvania if I recall, where his coach left and as a result his recruitment dried up. No scholarship coming out of high school; he was given preferred walk-on status at KSU.
He has an academic scholarship
and is an Architecture Major. K-State gave him the best of what he wanted, architecture and a good football team. He’s a big, hard working kid, and should at least provide depth on the D-Line
I think we have that.
We’ve got two or three guys who dwarf (in size) what we had last year with a year under their belt for skill development. One or more will be a good compliment to Lutui, or flat out beat him for a starting spot.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
I tihnk Voelker might be missed more than you think
Yea the guy was sort of like an Alex Hrebec on the line, but…
He was decent pass rushing (well not necessarily in terms of sacks) but he seemed responsible for getting in the face of the qb and forcing bad throws. At least he did that one game (Baylor).
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Voelker was tough, a good hustle guy
He played smart and was disciplined. But not much more in the physical department. He’ll be missed in terms of character (toughness, heart, determination) and you need those guys on your team, but we need to upgrade his position in terms of talent.
But you’re right about one thing – when he tipped Griffin’s 4th-down pass on Baylor’s last play, that was money.
Personally, i'm not going to miss hartman
for every good play he had 3 bad ones. his up and down play left me screaming at my TV more than any other player.
His penchant for leading with his head (as seen by his injury in the Cotton bowl) is why he constantly missed tackles
I wish him the best and he’s been a good student, but I’m looking forward to NOT watching him miss tackle after tackle next year.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
This
His penchant for leading with his head (as seen by his injury in the Cotton bowl) is why he constantly missed tackles
always made me wonder why he didnt get hurt more often
I'm not going to miss
watching him doze off to sleep in his deep pass-coverage responsibilities. That got tiring the past two seasons.
by CT-K-Stater on Jan 10, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Has anyone heard?
I was watching the game with a fellow alum. He was telling me rob gronkowskis (sp) little brother is coming to K State next year. Has anyone else heard this?
K-S-U ! we'll carry thy banner high
K-S-U ! long long may thy colors fly
by motown wildcat on Jan 10, 2012 11:22 AM CST via Android app reply actions
Yeah, he signed his LOI last year but is greyshirtting this year
He is supposed to be the best of the brothers…
I believe he's slotted as an H-Back
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
I doubt he plays a traditional WR
I’ve heard Slot/H-Back, but he has the size to move in to TE as well. I’ve heard the term Utility Receiver used as in he can play all three.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
That would make a lot of sense
the staff is usually pretty good at getting talent on the field when they can.
I would anticipate this as well
With Braden Wilson becoming a Sr next year, this position would allow Gron to develop in his own position while being able to let that position take up Wilson’s responsibilities the following year in a less traditional sense. Snyder will just flip to the next page of his playbook and allow the offense to work similarly while looking different on tape.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
If I remember correctly from the articles I have read about him
he is one of those “do anything” guys. I think a lot of the recruiting services like to call them “athletes”. Except he is actually listed as a “wide receiver” on both Scout and Rivals.
He isn’t as big as Rob though (listed as 6-2, 205 and 6-3, 195 on Scout and Rivals respectively).
Scout has an update from December 2011 stating that he will be enrolling in classes in the spring semester. Interestingly enough, the Scout page I linked is actually a Clemson Tigers Scout page (I guess they were recruiting him as well?)
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Jan 10, 2012 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
That would be me.
I actually posted this fanshot as well. There is mention of KSU in the article, IIRC.
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Jan 10, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Congratulations to KSU team
Great year by overachievers. Before Guidry & Voelker graduate this year, I’m hoping our coaching stall have studied Guidry uncanny moves and ability to block kicks so these skills can be passed on to other lineman next year. Also, the ability of Jordan Voelker, with average athletic ability to play at an above average D1 level.
In watching Alabama win last night, it appears to me that due to the unrelenting DL rush on every pass play they do not have to worry about defending the deep pass. Hope we can upgrade our DL to this point. Snyder is the best coach in the nation in getting the maximum out of his team.
What happened to Tray Rabon? He switch his commitment to Grambling State. Grades?
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
I've heard two reasons
Both will get you sent down the Kansas River ASAP with Snyder.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
I liked Rabon. However, in terms of prep receiving talent, I like Deante Burton a lot more.
Like isn’t a strong enough word over how I feel about Burton. He’s going to be dynamite.
Also, from what I can glean, Marquez Clark (1st team NJCAA All-American) should have a red-shirt available, and I believe he’s available for Spring Practice. Klein’s baby brother is apparently a stud as well.
We’re not going to hurt for targets for the next four years. Losing Rabon is a high-class problem.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
I totally agree
you can throw in the Gronkowski kid too, plus a healthy Curry Sexton ( who was a stud dude till he broke his arm) and the return of Harper, T Thompson, and a hopefully very healthy T Lockett…Please God, let that kid get healthy again!!
I'd like a big, physical receiver who can also get downfield
Arkansas was loaded with those types. When Harper is on he fits this description well. Brod had a tremendously, tremendously disappointing season and I hope he rebounds in ’12. Like you I really liked what I saw out of Curry Sexton. A little more bulk on him without losing any speed or agility would really make a difference.
He was "little" but never afraid to go across the field
and jump for a ball amid bigger defenders. I really like guys like that, and there are more and more on this team all the time.
Yes, he was fearless
just somewhat physically slight. Not that it hurt his game, but is more conducive to injuries.
I heard Juice and Money
Just rumors I heard. It maybe completely false.
Insert legal disclaimer here.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
Damn reply fail.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
According to the email letter from Currie, the Cotton bowl had 8.3 million viewers
The Splenda bowl had more and was the top program on Tuesday night. Blech.
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2012/01/tv-ratings-fox-boosted-by-cotton-bowl-but-cbs-dramas-win-the-night.html At least the Cotton won the most important segment, people with money and a pulse (no offense Furnace and Anon)
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
We beat ABC, that is all that matters.
And are you saying I don’t have a pulse?
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
bringonthecats.com, K-State's SBnation blog where I hang out during games.
by Anon_the_younger on Jan 10, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
I have a pulse when the Rangerettes show up!
oh hail the Purple and White
Speaking of Rangerettes
I was disappointed in their somewhat less than Hot looks…
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Sad news for the entire Wildcat Nation....
….with the passing of forme coach Vince Gibson. the author of PURPLE PRIDE.
RIP Coach!
Yes, a sad loss
And it makes two losses for Wildcat Nation in the span of less than a week: Coach Vince Gibson and Bryan Hickman.
Brian Hickman passed away!?
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
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