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Conference Realignment: I Call My Shot

With all of the reports and theories running rampant around the sports universe regarding conference realignment, it's extremely hard to sort fact from fiction and the probable from the improbable.  Will Oklahoma leave the Big 12?  Will the Big 12 dissolve?  Will the SEC stay at thirteen teams, or will they immediately expand to fourteen or sixteen?  Each question has an unknown answer, and each answer likely leads to another question with yet another unknown answer like dominoes falling over and over again until it leads to its ultimate end.

Star-divide

But what is that ultimate end?  Is it four separate sixteen team super-conferences?  That seems to be the prevailing thought, but in all of my research (and I've read hundreds of articles) the genesis of this thought seems to go back to an article written by Atlanta Journal Constitution writer, Tony Barnhart back in April 2010.  This is where he essentially broke the news that the Big Ten was looking at expanding to sixteen teams, and the following snippet seemed to light the fires of speculation:

And what does the SEC do if the Big Ten throws down this gauntlet? The conference has its 15-year, $3 billion television contract in place.  Does the SEC have to react to the new marketplace that has been created? The SEC and Big Ten have separated themselves financially from the rest of Division I. If the SEC stood pat would it risk watching the Big Ten with the additional dollars that would come in, pull away from the SEC?

I keep looking and looking online, trying to find the missing link between the point where the Big Ten considered moving to sixteen teams and when the notion of four separate sixteen team super conferences came into being, and I can't find it.  As you know, the Pac-12 didn't make its move into the expansion foray until June 2010.  So, at some point last summer, it became conventional wisdom that the move to super conferences was likely, and more specifically, the move to four sixteen team super conferences was inevitable.

I'm sorry, but...huh?

At some point in this conversation, where people are treating the college football landscape like it's a game of Risk, they forgot that we're dealing, mostly, with publicly funded educational entities that are bound to other institutions by politics, rivalry, and like-minded academic pursuits.  While it's fun to speculate on the ‘inevitable future' of the sport (and every other sport played by these universities as a result) and sort teams out on the basis of popularity and their general proximity to large metropolitan areas (and the televisions that accompany them), it's important to realize that in reality, life doesn't work that way due to a number of variables, and the odds of this perfectly symmetrical future are a lot lower than people want to believe.

I know most of you probably think that I sound like a crazy person.  The Pac-12 is currently flirting with adding four of the current Big 12 members to make the first sixteen team BCS league, and A&M already has one foot across the threshold and into the SEC.  However, what happens from here is far from clear, and most of the ideas being kicked around require outstanding leaps of faith based on assumptions created by columnists, sports journalists, and bloggers who have no more true knowledge into what's going to happen than the average fan.  Like me.

That said I am going to throw my hat into the ring and start making some predictions.  Some may seem bold, and others may seem rather tame.  Regardless, I am going to start tipping over my own dominoes starting with the current Cuban Missile Crisis facing the Big 12, but I'm not going to make my decisions based on the outcome of super conferences, which has no factual basis or logical support.  I'm going to look at every basic assumption and use the premise of Occam's razor, which basically says that simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones.  Therefore, instead of crafting wild and grand theories about the "inevitable" college football landscape from the onset, I'm going to challenge every general hypothesis at each domino fall and the outcome of the analysis will lead me to the subsequent next step until we end at what I believe will be a conclusion that creates some version of stability in the landscape.

Without further ado, let's get started.  I am starting this exercise from where we currently stand on September 4, 2010, and Texas A&M has already withdrawn from the Big 12, but does not currently have an SEC invitation.

 

 

Issue #1: Oklahoma is thinking about leaving the Big 12 and Oklahoma State will go with them.

This seems to be the most likely course of action if you believe newspaper reports coming out of Oklahoma at this point in time.  But is this the most logical course of action?  Does Oklahoma look to leave the Big 12 for greener pastures out west?  What do they stand to gain and lose?

Well, for starters, the Pac-12 recently signed a new ESPN/FOX TV deal worth $3 billion, and the average payout per school will be $20.8 million .   The current Big 12 payout is considerably less than that.  However, concessions were made during the realignment mess last year that guaranteed Texas, Oklahoma, and Texas A&M at least $20 million dollars annually at the expense of everyone else in the conference.  While I personally don't know the hard numbers (and this includes the money from the Pac-12 regional and national network structure that will go into place on top of the ESPN/Fox deal), it seems like at this specific point in time, the money argument goes to the Pac-12 simply because the Big 12's current first-tier rights deal isn't up for renegotiation until 2015, and given the current instability of the conference, it's nearly impossible to say what the Big 12 would stand to gain if they can hold it together for another four years.   Therefore, if we're looking at this from a purely financial standpoint, you have to concede the argument to the Pac-12.  But there is a chance that it won't be all that much given the current inflated value of media rights and what those dollars could look like in 2015, and there is a chance the Big 12 could exceed what the Pac-12 offers.

On the other hand, a huge part of what makes Oklahoma successful financially is their outstanding winning tradition and current state of the football program.  In the last twelve years under Bob Stoops, the Sooners have averaged over 10 wins per year, have one national title (2000), and they have won an amazing seven conference titles in twelve years.  They currently hold the number one ranking and are the preseason favorite to win another national title.  It's difficult to believe that any sane person would look to leave a situation where they currently find themselves in the BCS two-thirds of the time.

When David Boren sent shockwaves through the landscape on Friday, he made one specific comment that struck my attention:

"I don't think there's anything that has to be, at all, and everything doesn't have to be done today. I mean, there's nothing that says the conference will collapse at nine," Boren said. "We have a full season to play and we'll have to go through.

"Obviously, I think if we could eventually -- and that doesn't mean in one year, maybe it's going to take two or three years -- if we were to eventually get back to 12, I would feel better about it," Boren said.

So we have a few key variables here regarding Oklahoma looking around.  First, in the short-term, they will make approximately as much money as the schools in the Pac-12, so that's not an immediate concern, and long term financial projections are cloudy given the fact that the biggest part of the Big 12's media rights are up for renegotiation in four years.  Now, that's not to say the Pac-12 couldn't renegotiate their rights given the recent addition, but without knowing the hard numbers, we'll just ballpark and say the difference would most likely be a drop in OU's overall revenue bucket.  Second, they would be going from a conference that they currently dominate, and have a significant amount of influence as an ‘elite' member, to a conference that will split power sixteen different ways with a core of eight teams that have been together since 1964.  Third, if the concern is stability, all OU has to do is commit to the Big 12 with Texas, put their efforts towards true expansion, and they could get back to twelve.  Now, we don't know who those twelve could be, but you can hit that number if you look long enough and put the right deal together.  More importantly, Boren didn't say that expansion had to happen tomorrow, but it had to happen.

Now, using Occam's razor, what is the simplest theory to discern from Boren's comments?  That he plans on leaving a conference that his team has been a part of (going back to Big 6 days) since 1919 for a (currently) small amount of money, reduced influence, and a tougher road to the BCS?  Or was it that he wants to get back to 12 teams and used a public forum to let his conference members know via threatening language that gives them the upper hand and leverage in discussions regarding expansion, revenue distribution, etc.?

I'm going with the latter.  This goes against everything that every beat writer out of Oklahoma has been writing in the past couple of days, but logically, moving to the Pac-12 makes little sense unless you're talking straight dollars and cents in the short term.  If it really is stability OU wants, all they have to do is go out and say that they are firmly committed to the Big 12's survival with the University of Texas, and they are aggressively looking at expansion.  If it's Texas that they're afraid of, UT already has a significant monetary advantage over OU, and it hasn't had an impact on the field.  More money for Texas has simply been just that; it hasn't equated to more wins over Oklahoma. 

In my domino theory, Oklahoma stays because it's bluffing to get what it wants (12 teams, more power), and it will get it because...

Issue #2:  Texas doesn't want to leave the Big 12 and they want it to remain viable        

I'm really not going to spend a lot of time expanding on this.  Texas is currently in a league that they essentially run with a commissioner that does their bidding by proxy.  They currently get a guaranteed amount of money from the conference, and they have the Longhorn Network that will pay them an average of $15 million a year over the twenty year life of the contract.  Aside from Notre Dame and BYU (independents), no one else in the nation has this kind of deal and exposure.  It has the potential to be a windfall for both Texas and ESPN, and Texas has every incentive to keep this deal alive.  While news stories exist that discuss the fact that the LHN is not an impediment to them joining the Pac-12, the Pac-12 is an impediment to Texas' version of the Deathstar.  Giving up on the LHN means giving up on the greatest single competitive advantage UT can have at its disposal.   And they're not going to give the LHN up without a fight.

I'm not even mentioning the issues UT may have with the Texas legislature should they choose to go.

Also, you can use every single argument that I used previous with Oklahoma in regards to conceding power.  And, as we all know, Texas doesn't like conceding power.

So, again, when faced with dumping the LHN, reducing their influence and only increasing the difficulty in their road to the postseason, what do you think the decision will be?

Texas stays and works behind the scenes to give Oklahoma what they want.

Issue #3: What about Missouri?  Aren't they a threat to bolt to the SEC?

Well, yeah, technically they are.  They are a Top 20 state in terms of population, they're smack dab in the middle of two big media markets, and they have recently seen an increase in their football fortunes.  However, what about Missouri screams, "SEC"?

Not much.  They aren't a cultural fit, they aren't an academic fit (too good), and Missouri has long made flirtatious gestures towards the Big Ten, so you know that they would prefer to have some form of flexibility in the event Jim Delany wants to go bigger.  Given the fact that Missouri is highly competitive in all sports in the Big 12, and the revenue they will receive from the Big 12 after first tier rights go up for bid in 2015 will most likely exceed what they would get from the SEC (who's rights aren't up again until 2025), and on top of that, they would split that money 14 ways in the SEC as opposed to (at worst) twelve teams in the Big 12, you can see that moving to the SEC is not financially lucrative for Missouri.

The only reason for Missouri to go to the SEC would be for short term monetary gain and stability.  But, again, should Oklahoma and Texas commit to staying in the Big 12, the stability would be there.  The money will be there in a couple of years as well.  Missouri's Chancellor, Brady Deaton, is currently in charge of the Big 12 Expansion Committee, so Mizzou will have influence on the direction of the future of this conference.

Given the fact that the Big Ten has currently shut down expansion plans, and Mizzou isn't a school that a conference is going to go out of their way to make room for, the only place they could begin negotiations would be the Big East, and all things considered, an unstable Big 12 is still preferable to a stable Big East.  Sure, the Big East is currently looking to renegotiate their rights in 2012, and there is potential for a lucrative deal there, a rebuilt Big 12 anchored by the current nine is still going to bring in more dollars and the opportunity to maintain existing rivalries.

Unless the Big 12 collapses, and in this domino theory it won't, Missouri will stand pat because of long term revenue generation, less football competition, and maintaining bonds that have been in place for nearly one hundred years (more in some instances).

This begs the question...

Issue #4: Where does the SEC go for #14?

Not so fast, my friend.  Who is to say that A&M is even going to get an invite from the SEC?  If what Chip Brown says is true, and folks in the Big 12 and the Texas legislature are so hopping mad about how the last couple weeks have gone down that they may sue the SEC for torturous interference, my guess is that they'll be a lot more hesitant to pull in A&M.

If what Chip Brown says isn't true, and let's be honest, that happens a lot because, as we know, stuff is "fluid", A&M will need a partner in the SEC very quickly.  I know that there have been several reports out there that say a thirteen member SEC may be around for a couple of years, but I highly doubt the members of the West division would be really happy about having another conference game on their plate while the members on the East side can schedule a big money game or a patsy to help with their overall record with that extra conference game they don't have to play.  You need symmetry, and you'd need it immediately. 

To act fast, you have to target schools that can move quickly and without many restrictions.  That means you're looking for schools that don't have significant ties to other universities in states with active legislatures that get involved in conference affiliation matters (i.e. Virgina).  Therefore, you want a ‘one-state, one-team' sort of deal.  Or you will want to try and find a school from a state in your existing footprint where the legislature would be more than happy to rubber stamp the move from their inferior conference into yours.

Given the infamous "gentleman's agreement" regarding SEC expansion that says no new schools will come from existing member states, you're looking at a pretty small pool of applicants.  Obviously, as mentioned before, Virginia Tech, while being a very attractive looking candidate, has some legislative issues to deal with, and they've also made it perfectly clear that they want to stay in the ACC.

So, if the gentleman's agreement stays in place, and the SEC looks to expand its footprint, you're looking at either Missouri or West Virginia.  As I've outlined why I think Missouri stays in the Big 12, I think you're looking at WVU as #14.  They are in an inferior conference, they don't have a ‘baggage school', and they are a perennial Top 25 football team that also has a very good basketball program that can help elevate the profile in both sports.  While expanding into West Virginia may not seem like the most ideal position, it gets the SEC into markets as far north as Pittsburgh. 

WVU fits nearly every profile necessary to become an SEC school, and Mike Slive doesn't have to worry about the bad PR that would come from destroying the Big 12 (since OU and Texas stay), and he won't have to raid the ACC for another team, thereby minimizing fallout.

So, now that the Big East has officially been raided, it's open season on the Big East like it has been open season on the Big 12.

Issue #5: After the Big 12 stays together, and the SEC plucks West Virginia, what happens next?

All of that smoke out there on Oranglebloods.com prior to OU's public statements regarding Pitt ultimately start to make sense as they become the primary target for expansion.  Given that Jim Delany has said the Big Ten isn't interested in expansion at this point in time (more on that later), and Pitt has just lost their main Big East rival, they may be more receptive to an overture from the Big 12.  

After the Big East loses their tent pole football program in WVU, media rights demand in their future negotiations will most likely go down, making any and all schools in the Big East up for grabs.  Pitt becomes target #1, and if it looks like the Big East is going down, and there are no rooms at the inn for them in the Big Ten or ACC, they become much more interested in what the Big 12 has to say.  The same goes for Louisville as well.  Both teams bring excellent pros to the Big 12:

Pittsburgh: Strong academic institution (AAU Member) in a major media market that plays in a professional stadium in football.  They are a big time basketball program that would bring pop to the Big 12 in addition to their traditionally strong and historic football program.

Louisville: The football stadium has expanded seating to 58,000, and the new basketball facility is top notch.  Louisville has been to both a Final Four and a BCS bowl in the last few years, so they are a big time athletic program looking for a bigger stage in football. 

Now, the drawback for both schools would ultimately be, "Why would we want to drag our basketball programs out of the Big East and into the Big 12?"  Well, yes, it would be a bit of a downgrade, overall, but if you moved those two schools to round out the North, you'd have a division consisting of Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Pitt, and Louisville.  I'm sorry, but that's just sick right there.

Both of these schools have been mentioned in regards to Big 12 expansion, so it would not be a surprise if either or both of them were targeted.  They simply make the most sense.

So, if this came true, and logically, it is plausible in our scenario...

Issue #6: Where does the Big 12 go for number twelve?

Let's presume that the nine remaining schools in the Big 12 have stayed together and they have secured commitments from Pitt and Louisville.  Where does the Big 12 go for the final member?

There are two members in this scenario that really make sense: TCU and BYU.  TCU, which would now seriously question a move to the Big East, could be on the table.  However, the Big 12 has already stated that they don't want to duplicate the footprint.  The problem, though, is that BYU seems to really want to stay independent, and they don't necessarily want to break their non-football ties to the WCC.  BYU is the slam dunk choice to join, but at this point, their desire for independence seems stronger than their desire to be in a BCS AQ conference.  That means TCU most likely becomes the strongest candidate on the board due to their proximity to the conference, ease of addition, and recent national prominence.  Therefore, I would say TCU gets the nod.

Adding Pitt, Louisville, and TCU may not be the same as Nebraska, Texas A&M, and Colorado, but it replaces a missing Texas school and rounds out the south, and it gets the North into brand new media markets and massively upgrades the basketball profile.

Now that the SEC has been rounded out, the Big 12 is stable, and the Big East is raided, what happens next?

Issue #7: Big East Expansion

This is where, admittedly, I'm moving into more prediction than logic.

The Big East will need to react and do so quickly before their media negotiations come up in 2015.  The most likely candidates will all come from Conference USA, and frankly, they will need to take the best programs available to help maintain AQ status.  To minimize travel issues, they'll need to take as many schools in large cities as possible.  Therefore, I think this is who they'd take:

  • Houston
  • East Carolina
  • Memphis
  • UCF (Orlando)
  • SMU (Dallas)

That would replace the four schools that were missing.  East Carolina doesn't fit that large city mold, but they have the highest attendance of any team on this list, and they bring a successful mid-major program into the mix.

Would this be enough to maintain AQ status?  It's hard to say.  But there is a good chance they'll be able to stay afloat and get a decent media contract by adding all of those schools in large media markets.

At this point, the landscape would be stabilized with the SEC as the only school exceeding twelve members.  The Big East would ultimately get to ten members hoping quantity in excess of what they have would help them maintain AQ status.

***

If you've stuck with me thus far, I know that you're thinking, "Uh, where is the Big Ten in all of this mess and why aren't they expanding to more teams?" 

Well, that's because it's always been somewhat unspoken that the one school the Big Ten really covets is Notre Dame, and the only way they're going to get them is by waiting them out and hoping their fortunes drop to the point where NBC (or some other network) doesn't want to renegotiate their rights at a competitive rate.  It's at this point Jim Delany could ride in like a white knight and offer the Big Ten Network.  However, until that time comes, the Big Ten has limited bullets in the chamber, and they aren't going to waste them on any school that doesn't help them get Notre Dame.   Notre Dame's rights go up for bid again in 2015, so until then, the odds of the Big Ten making a move are probably very slim.

Also, you may have noticed that I didn't mention the SEC going to sixteen teams.  Well, Mike Slive has never said he wants to go to sixteen teams.  He said he can.  He never said wants.  If you have a TV deal with limited negotiation windows in the next fourteen years, do you really want to expand to sixteen and make the pieces of your revenue pie smaller?  Especially if the Big 12 solidifies and the ACC continues to show solidarity? That would mean your pool of applicants goes way down, and whoever you gain most likely wouldn't overcome the tipping point value needed to create value for the conference as a whole.

So, in summation, I think the Big 12 stays together and ultimately expands to twelve, the SEC goes to fourteen, the Big East gets raided, BYU stays right where they are, and the Big Ten does nothing until 2015, and at that point, they're going to take a sledgehammer to the Big East to try and force Notre Dame out.

Call me crazy, but this seems every bit as plausible as any super-conference scenario that I've seen.

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Comments

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I won't call this crazy, but it does rely on a lot of assumptions

The biggest is this: that OU/Texas will decide to commit to the Big12 before they receive any commitments from schools looking to join. In other words, they would be committing to a 9 team conference on the assumption that someone worthwhile would end up coming in. If we could get Pitt/Louisville/TCU to commit first then I think the odds would go way up.

by smitty3268 on Sep 5, 2011 5:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Assumptions

I don’t think this post draws any more assumptions than any other article written on the subject. If OU and Texas don’t think they can hold this thing together and get quality replacements in the Big 12 – they’re underestimating their power. No one is going to join the Big 12 w/o the commitment of those two schools. That has to be the first domino falling before legitimate expansion… a strong commitment from OU/Texas.

Thanks for this post, Pan.

PROUD & PURPLE

by ksubailey on Sep 5, 2011 8:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

You have it exactly backwards.

Why the heck would OTHER schools “commit” before the two core schools commit. That doesn’t make any logical sense at all.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, they won't

I just think a week ago it seemed like BYU was pretty iffy on whether they wanted to come, and all the other schools discussed didn’t seem real likely to come either. I think that’s what started this whole OU/Texas might move to the PAC12 business in the first place. Will they decide to stay with the hope that good things will happen, or will they decide that moving to the PAC12 is the “safer” option. That’s my question.

by smitty3268 on Sep 5, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, and to be clear, I did think this was an interesting take

And not particularly any more far-fetched than a lot of the realignment rumors are. Just that I don’t think it’s much more likely than any of those either.

I think the idea that the B10 might stick to 12 and the SEC 14 rather than both going up to 16 might be correct. I wouldn’t be surprised if the B10 went to 14 after the SEC does, leaving a 15/16 slot for Notre Dame. But I have to admit, they could just as easily stick to 12 – and there’s not much reason for the SEC to go past 14.

by smitty3268 on Sep 5, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great Post, well thought out.

I have a few questions. What about U. South Florida, who just beat Notre Dame? And what about So. Miss.? It seems those are two schools with a big upside to add to a football conference. I am in complete agreement. I do not see how three conf. with 16, one with <12, and two with 12 helps us get any closer to a playoff. I actually think 8 AQ conferences with the 8going to a playoff would be great, with maybe two play-in games for the best two independents and other non-AQ conf. champs with highest ranking. Destroying the BIG-12 makes no sense, no gain for anyone. However, if the BIG-12 does not go to equal revenue sharing and if the LHN does not morph into a regional network, the Big-12 will not survive. That “elite three three” (OU, A&M, UT) revenue income philosophy has not worked in any other major conf. Look at how unequal sharing hurt the Big-East in all except basketball.

by RRaider5355 on Sep 5, 2011 7:35 AM CDT reply actions  

good points

But assuming the Big 12 survives, there has got to be some sort of 10 year commitment or something to keep this from happening again.

I also agree MU wants the conference to survive this time around.

If knew how to link it I would (I’m on my phone) but Mark Cuban’s article on this was very good.

by ElephantHouse on Sep 5, 2011 7:36 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions  

Good point about commitments

As for the Cuban article, here you go. Anon posted this earlier in another thread. It should be required reading for every president and AD in the Big-12 (and Pac-12), every conference commissioner and every executive jerk-off at ESPN.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

+ 10 on the Cuban article,

I mean, the guy knows markets and marketing. He’s a self-made billionaire who thinks outside the box. He makes points that many of us here have been making for over a year, but he adds credibility to the obvious.
The idea that atheletic conferences can be successful after they have destroyed what has made them great for some 90 years – regional rivalries – is so stupid that it defies comprehension.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hey! We're starting to agree on things!

What’s up with THAT, Furnace?!? :)

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

is it getting cold?

8-)

The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
EDSBS - come for the articles, stay for the trolling.

by Anon_the_younger on Sep 5, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think that MU didn't want the conference to survive last time

I think there was a lot of fear that either the B12 would collapse or would be left terminally unstable, and MU wanted to protect its position either way.

by jschooltiger on Sep 5, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mizzou saw that most Big XII schools wouldn't be able to compete financially in the long term because of the way the conference was structured

In the months before the first round of alignment, Pinkel was complaining about how difficult is was to compete with two bordering Big Ten teams that stood to make $11 million a year from the BTN. Now he’s looking at three Big Ten teams that stand to make $23 million a year from the BTN, and the Big XII conference still doesn’t seem concerned. The fact is that the Big XII’s position was always precarious. We’ve always been an unstable conference, it’s just that the fault lines finally moved enough last year to break up the conference. And, I should add, I mentioned here last year after Nebraska and Colorado left that the Big XII was still unstable and that nothing had been done to fix the fundamental issues and that the Big XII would be lucky to survive 5 more years. I never believed the lovey dovey talk coming from the conference about how contraction was really really awesome. You wrote me off as a butthurt Mizzou fan. Well, one year later, here we are again. So I’ll say this again. If the Big XII doesn’t address the fundamental issues breaking the conference apart (revenue sharing, conference network, Texas dominance) then the conference won’t survive.

by Gaknar on Sep 5, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

But didn't they address that very thing?

I thought I read that the revenue sharing had become, while still not “equal”, something much closer to that.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not equal is not equal

And LHN plus everyone else is not a conference network. And Texas thumbing their nose at the conference is still Texas thumbing their nose at the conference. Nothing changed. None of the schools trust each other or respect each other. Texas is still willing to drive the conference into the iceberg just to prove a point.

by Gaknar on Sep 5, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, unless they do everything that people asked for, their compromise is not enough?

That’s a very interesting negotiating tactic.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, this.
But the excuses and the blame-Texas game get old. Mizzou is not an innocent party in all this.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great post,

excellent reasoning all around. The key is does OU and Okie state stay put. And I am not 100% sure that SEC issues the invite to tAm. The thing that kills me is all reports indicate that Longhorn would be willing to “change” its vaunted network if it goes to the Pac. WTF!, it will change its fuckin network to go west, but won’t change it to save the Big 12. That is what pisses me off about UT and its fanbase and administrators right now. A lot of this noise from OU and Okie may be to create leverage to get concessions on Longhorn Network; at least that is my hope.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Your latter point

was exactly my thinking. For all the heaviness of Boren’s comments, there was also some ambiguity. He wasn’t a politician for nothing.
Go back and look at articles on the Big-12 from just 3-4 days ago. You’ll see a lot of stuff out there about the “Sooner Network”. This was a dream of AD Joe Castiglione (a huge friend to the Big-12 last year during this realignment mess). OU has worked hard at putting it together and getting it up off the ground. But they look at UT who had ESPN come in and do all the heavy-lifting for them. So is Boren/OU looking for ESPN to come in, throw them a little extra $$ and help them get Sooner TV off the ground, or are they seeking concessions from Texas regarding the LHN? I think that possibility has to be considered. And not that ESPN seems to care one iota about public perception, but they are going to look really, really bad if all this goes down and the Big-12 implodes.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

OU network

All OU has to do to get a network is join the Pac-12. They’ll automatically get a network to share with OSU, guaranteed national distribution (been a major problem for even TLN), a higher academic profile and friends to help them get AAU status. And $$$$$$$$. Pac-12 is projected to be distributing around $35 mil in 3 years and that just goes up with expansion.

by KitIsh on Sep 6, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please explain how
that just goes up with expansion

because in my experiences sharing a Big Ass pizza with 11 buddies allows for more pizza for me than sharing it with more than 11 buddies. (When is the PAC-12 deal up for re-negotiation? This still doesn’t guarantee more per entity than they get now.)

'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert

by VegasCat07 on Sep 7, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are F-in Right

There is wisdom in age, as long as we’re sober.

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

by ArkieCat on Sep 5, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Louisville already turned down the Big 12 before it was even offered.

I think Houston, Air Force and BYU makes more sense. BYU hasn’t turned down the Big 12, and is in active discussion with them. BYU gives us Utah for revenue, and the entire Mormon community across the US. Air Force puts us back in the Colorado market, plus every soldier in the Air Force would be watching. Houston has a lot of potential, making up for the lost Houston markets Texas A&M took away. TCU doesn’t make any sense anymore.You saw what happened against Baylor, they aren’t anything special anymore. I’d much rather have Houston. I’d like to have Louisville and Pitt, but they just don’t make sense geographicly.To me, it looks a arm stretching east ready to be broken by the Big 10 at any moment. And if you have Louisville and Pitt, why not take Cincinatti as well? Another profitable Urban school.

by super8 on Sep 5, 2011 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

"...plus every soldier in the Air Force would be watching."

I have been assured by numerous members of our wonderful military that for the most part, unless they actually went to one of the service academies, most members of the military couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the service academies except when they play one another, when it becomes a point of pride and bragging rights.

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by jonfmorse on Sep 5, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're absolute right

Unless you went to a service academy or unless you are a really really really tried and true lifer, you take some interest in your service academy, but overall, you just don’t pay much attention. Go onto any military post or base and take a look at what the troops are wearing. If they have on an Army, Air Force or Navy T-shirt or Sweatshirt, it’s the generic PT kind. Never the service academy style. What you will see is they’re wearing an Army T-Shirt with an Oklahoma cap, etc. And when they start talking over smokes, it’s about their home state’s football team and not the service teams.

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

by ArkieCat on Sep 5, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would beg to differ

My dad was enlisted Navy, never went to Annapolis, but he (and all his Navy buddies) still cheered for and watched Navy games.

I mean, I can’t really speak for all the branches, but the Navy guys really do root for Navy even outside of playing each other.

No, the passion isn’t as deep as for whatever schools they may have brought with them (my dad’s was THE Ohio State University), but if they like college football, and the choice is between their service against whoever or some other random game that doesn’t involve their personal favorite college team, I guarantee they will watch the service game.

Now, of course it isn’t going to get all the service members. Only those that are already interested in college football, but that is certainly a large market base, especially when taking into account retired service members. It would definitely increase our national portfolio.

Would you like some Freys with that?

by ChrisP Wildcat on Sep 5, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

They'll cheer for their service if they're watching.

The point the people I know make is that they don’t really go out of their way TO watch in the first place. They hear that their academy won Saturday, they’re happy about it, in pretty much the same way I’m happy when I hear Pittsburg State won and bummed out when they lose.

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by jonfmorse on Sep 6, 2011 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you meant to say "every airman in the Air Force would be watching."

What you said was nearly as much of a military faux pas as calling a Marine a soldier.

by BracketCat on Sep 6, 2011 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great post, Pan

One school to consider in SEC expansion, however, is Maryland. Why everyone overlooks them in these discussions is beyond me. Their campus is essentially in DC (College Park begins at the end of Rhode Island Ave stretching north from Capital Hill), they are the lone school in the state (Navy not counted), they also have the Baltimore market nearby (30 minutes away), they have decent football, a good state to recruit in, expand the SEC’s footprint outside its current zone of coverage, and have a decent-sized stadium that would fill up for all those SEC games. Not sure Maryland would want to face that competition or sever their longstanding ties with their ACC brethren, but I’d be surprised if the SEC wouldn’t look at them. And you can bet with Maryland’s good academics that in the case of further expansion the self-described “prestigious institutes of higher-learning” in the Big-10 will be looking hard at Maryland.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 10:02 AM CDT reply actions  

another thing to take into account

is that in 16-team conferences how often do teams get to play each other? Meaning, if OU is in your East division, they would play a Washington or Oregon maybe once or twice in the span of 4 years (barring playoff games). Doesn’t do much for establishing rivalries and long-standing relationships.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

+100

So many ways to increase revenues in this world, and we’re stuck w/ the Longhorn Network!

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 6, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like this post

I will offer up this thought: sometimes agents act irrationally. For instance, Texas A&M looks to lose money in the short term and has a harder route to a championship. Self preservation may lead to an irrational jump when the blood is running through the streets.

I’d also emphasize that Boren has a lot of experience in the Intelligence business. The guy knows when to talk and when not to. His comments lead to severe instability and it was with a purpose. Whether that purpose was brinksmanship (to sweeten an internal deal) or a way to prepare the public (and UT) for a jump to the Pac 12 is up for debate.

Good article.

by Gopher86 on Sep 5, 2011 11:15 AM CDT reply actions  

A very intelligent poster on a message board I frequent said that...

It was odd OU decided to do a 180 on over a year’s worth of statements the week before A&M was set to receive an invitation from the SEC. It could be that it was done to spook the SEC into not taking them and maybe working a way to get them back into the conference.

OU to the Pac really doesn’t make sense given how sweet they have of a deal here right now. No sense. Especially when you look at the cultural fit between universities. I mean, Stanford and Cal sitting next to OU and OSU?

Uh, maybe on bizzaro day.

Bring on the Cats
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain

by Panjandrum on Sep 6, 2011 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Especially when, despite the rumblings from various interwebz columnist and twitterati

Right up until the moment Boren said “we’re exploring our options”, every action OU took between the decision that the TLN wouldn’t be allowed to broadcast high school games and that point was toward the stability of the Big 12.

The following is JUST A HUNCH ON MY PART. It should be given even less credence than a Chip Brown report.

Honestly, I think UT and OU REALLY WANT the Big 12 to survive, but they’re afraid if they take the time to sit down and stabilize things enough to ease the fears of potential expansion targets they’ll miss the window. Boren may be trying to scare everyone into sitting down and making a long-term commitment so that they can get back to the business of trying to land some new schools. I keep going back to the Notre Dame involvement in our talks with BYU: why would Notre Dame be involved at all? Certainly not to just offer their opinion.

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by jonfmorse on Sep 6, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're headed it the right direction.

The Notre Dame thing wasn’t as unexpected to me. If Cuban is right that a conference is sold on it’s top four teams, imagine what you could get for ND, Texas, OU and…BYU? No, A&M.

This is pure speculation but, I think OU “came out” because ND and BYU ARE in play and Bebee was going to bend over for them…huge signing bonuses, on the upper end of unequal revenue sharing, keep their own current TV deals, halftime blow jobs, etc, etc. Things were getting crazy so they said FU the B12 if they’re going to lose their power. As Cuban said, big fish hate to become little fish (or something like that). If the new B12 was going to have Bebee getting Beberfever for UT, ND, BYU and A&M to get them to stay then it left OU flapping in the breeze. So they raised their hand and said hold the Fu@( up, we can and will kill this thing if we can’t be heard. If A&M walks, I think Pitt joins.

When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.

by BlackCats on Sep 7, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Clearly

Boren is playing his hand well. He timed his comments perfectly and seems to have left himself with an out. Selfishly, I hope that he’s campaigning for concessions for the entire Big 12. Perhaps it’s naive of me, but if you make money a non-issue (equal revenue, conference network) this is a very viable league.

For now, I’ll take the more cynical point of view and consider OU/OSU gone. It’s a shame, but money talks, and money walks.

by Gopher86 on Sep 6, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Oklahoma stays because it's bluffing to get what it wants (12 teams, more power)..."

It seems to me that the public comments from OU’s president are counterproductive to that argument. If you want the Big 12 to expand back to 12 teams and be a more powerful conference, you don’t make public comments like OU’s president which cripples any hint of stability in the Big 12. His comments were ones that should be made in private among fellow Big 12 presidents, not in public.

How can the Big 12 hope to attract the likes of BYU, Louisville, Pitt, etc. if one of the top dogs in the conference is talking about jumping ship? Why would any school with a large enough profile to make the Big 12 a stronger conference want to join?

by KU_Lew on Sep 5, 2011 11:51 AM CDT reply actions  

agree

Oklahoma in threatening to leave is poisoning the pot. Seeing how damaging this is it is hard to believe that Oklahoma is not serious about leaving.

by margibso on Sep 5, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

This is a Kabuki dance. OU and Tx. are gone to the Pac. Now they are just playing the media to create chaos so no one knows who the real assholes are. If Mizzou doesn’t want to go to the SEC, and the Pac has to take T.Tech and Okie, leaving Jayhawk out to dry, then it is up to KU, KSU, Mizzou, Ia.State and Baylor to become proactive and add a few teams and then merge with the MWC. Got to get TCU, Houston, and hopefully, Louisville (to raise the b/ball profile) Screw the Big Least. Let’s form a conference with some decent rules, have some loyalty, and say good bye to the big guys – they are ruining us.
Can you imagine our head coaches trying to recruit — for two or three years, as Boren suggests — while this madness continues. Impossible. Get it over with. Create a strong enough basketball conference to continue the profile of KU, Mizzou, K-State.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You and I are on the exact same page here

I said it in another thread, better to take the exit fees from those leaving and rebuild and rebrand with the leftovers from the Big-12. (That is if some of us don’t jump to the Big Least first.) Don’t think this idea isn’t at least being discussed among the five schools left out of the Pac-12 conversation.
I’d prefer that OU, TU, etc, don’t leave and blow this thing up, but if that happens the best option would be to reform with those we know. Going forward there would be much more unity and solidarity and you bring in SMU, Houston and TCU and you keep a decent foothold in Texas despite losing the big boys to other conferences. Add several other schools for whatever reasons – new TV markets (Cincinnati, New Mexico, Colorado State, UNLV, Nevada), good football (BYU, Boise) or basketball (Louisville, Memphis) – and you appeal for retention of BCS status. Also, any $$$ made from lawsuits against the SEC and Pac-12 could be pooled to start a conference network.
It’s not as crazy as its sounds.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Idea

But as long as I have been following college football I seriously doubt that appeal to the BCS would be accepted. We all know how “exclusive” they are…even when TCU and Boise both have undefeated squads that can compete with the best the BCS pairs them together so that one of their “golden boys” doesn’t get smacked around at their exclusive, over priced “party…” No. I don’t think that the Big 12’ s “forgotten five,” and teams from the MWC and C-USA are going to be near enough to get BCS status.

I do like the idea of having those teams in the same conference tho. Would make for some interesting match ups. I don’t think there would be much away support going up for the Boise games tho.

by Kohawk84 on Sep 5, 2011 12:59 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Technically if the conference remains "intact"

meaning the “forgotten five” remain then we’d never lose the BCS status.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see. thats a good point.

I just have to wonder if the BCS would find a loophole and still manage to exclude the big 5…9…10…12…whatever…

by Kohawk84 on Sep 5, 2011 2:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That's when lawsuits come into play.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The BCS is dead in 3-5 years, count on it,

so we need to start thinking outside that paradigm.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be replaced with...

a shortened regular season (11 games), and a 16-team playoff, beginning the first weekend of December, and ending the first weekend of January. The bowls can remain as the exhibition-style games they were initially intended to be.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

K.S.B., if you can't see by now that

the damn preoccupation with a FUCKING playoff is a large part of what brought on this clusterfuck, well I give up. But I know you will never give it up. This is the subject of a another post. But for now, I suggest perhaps as part of the new paradigm folks start thinking about the importance of a STABLE conference system, intead of the feel good concept of a “fair” playoff system. Some folks never figure it out, and K.S.B. you are FIRST on that list. Listen, the big boys in the Big 10 and the Pac, etc HAVE TOLD YOU FOR YEARS that there aint’ gonna be a playoff in BigTimeCollegeFootball. So, do you have the power to tell them there wrong? Do ya? No, I didn’t think so, so STFU !

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

And, if you can't see

that the corrupt bowl system is a huge part of the problem, then YOU, sir, will never get it. I don’t have the “power” to force the Big 10 and the Pac-?? to agree to a playoff, you’re right. But that’s where lawsuits come in.

And, losing my cool for a bit, don’t ever use “STFU” to me again. I know you get hot and bothered about this issue for some reason, but you don’t have any right to tell another member (moderator or not) to “Shut The Fuck Up.”

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, you DO realize that bowls were never intended for the purpose they now serve, right?

They were exhibitions, in which the stats didn’t even count towards career records and such all the way up through the 90s some time. And we’ve even had Mythical National Champions named before the bowls were played. No, it’s not the playoff people who are the problem. It’s the people who have elevated glorified exhibitions to untouchable status that are the problem. It allows the greed of a few fat cat bowls to overrule what’s in the best interests of the schools, both monetarily and competitively.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I Don't Think

There will be a playoff at the BCS level, but I’m not about to say never. There have just been too many times that Congress has stuck their nose into this when their school has been rear ended (w/o KY). At some point in time, unless the BCS schools fix the problem themselves through manipulation of conference realignment, the pressure is going to get intense enough on the NCAA pres’s that they’ll jump.

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

by ArkieCat on Sep 5, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

in order to retain the BCS status of a conference you must have six of it's members.

This was discuss last year. If the big 12 is ever reduced to five it is not longer a conference. So in adding teams we would be creating a whole new conference that would have to apply for BCS status.

by margibso on Sep 6, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

You can apply for exceptions

That is not a hard and fast rule. I think we could definitely get ourselves an exception if we played our cards right.

Furthermore, if we agreed to let Texas and the rest leave with minimal to no exit fees in exchange for bringing in new members NOW before they leave, we would then have the six member requirement.

Would you like some Freys with that?

by ChrisP Wildcat on Sep 6, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I will need a link to prove this.

Because I’ve been hearing more and more that the Forgotten Five© could do this very thing.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 6, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I would like to see

All of the remaining viable expansion targets are in the MWC, the Big 12, and Big East and the ACC. I would like to see those four conferences form some kind of alliance to put an end to conference expansion. Make a pact that they won’t raid each other, that their members will remain committed, maybe work out some kind of football/basketball promotional matchups, maybe even some media sharing if possible. I don’t know if that can happen at this point, but it’s really the only way to stop the expansion momentum at this point.

by Gaknar on Sep 5, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

The MWC doesn't have enough clout to get something like that done.

But I agree with your main point, and think that the three BCS conferences you mention would be well-served to do something like this. But why should the Big 12 agree not to raid the MWC for the 4 or so schools that might actually have value to offer?

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well written

First of all. Not a Jayhawk fan. I went to a smaller school in Iowa with a “Hawk” mascot hence my screen name. I grew up and spent most my life in the little Apple so I am a life long Wildcat fan.

I thought the post was great and well thought out rationally with a mostly non biased process. Most of the speculation from “sources close to ESPN” and the writers from OU seem to just incite panic. I also like how u addressed that when so many “domino scenarios” are currently at work that a 100% logical solution or scenario is impossible to grasp at this point.

The only issue I have is that I am not quite so certain that the Big Ten will stay out of all this at the current time. The SEC didn’t act on all of this realignment stuff last summer but said that it would be Proactive if it must to level the playing field and continue to be an elite member of the BCS. Leading most to believe that the SEC was happy with its 12 team format but did not wish to be left behind if super conferences came into being. I think the Big Ten may be doing the same thing right now while waiting for the opportune moment to yank Notre Dame out of the Big East. However. If the SEC ends up poaching the Big East and gets a commitment from WVU I’m not so sure the Big Ten will remain silent if it feels that the SEC is tryng seize an advantage over them. And in the unlikely scenario that OU and UT do make the move to the Pac-12 I am almost certain that The Big Ten will make a move for MU and ND again.

Also, I believe u are correct about a rivalry developing between the big 12 south schools and the teams from Washington and Oregon being incredibly unlikely considering away fans will not travel cuz of cost and distance. This would be a huge downfall if they decide to leave. It would be one of the same reasons I believe Nubs made a huge mistake in joining the Big Ten. While I know their away following is remarkable I dont think fans will be particularly happy with absorbing the travel time and costs to go to Madison, Ann Arbor, Lansing and University Park PA. I expect to hear them griping about that within 2 years time.

by Kohawk84 on Sep 5, 2011 12:14 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

BYU would come if ...

The biggest impediment to BYU saying “yes” immediately to the Big 12 is the instability. If they knew that the TX schools would stay and that the OK schools would stay, there would be no question. They just can’t get left out in the cold for their other programs if the league crumbles. That’s got to be the A#1 fear and concern. If stability is there, the Cougars would be in like a flash.

by byufan on Sep 5, 2011 12:54 PM CDT reply actions  

The problem with invoking Occam's razor here,

is that the actual simplest explanation for Boren’s statement is that he means what he says. And if that’s the case, then the Big 12 is about to become the Big 5, with KSU, KU, Missouri, Iowa State, and Baylor. That said, a super-majority vote is required to dissolve the conference, meaning that the Forgotten Five is not without options. The Big 12 would still exist as a legal entity, and would be flush with cash (and a BCS auto-berth) with which to rebuild. My initial targets would be TCU, Houston, Memphis, Air Force, Louisville, Cincinnati, and BYU. Get to 12, share revenue equally, have a pretty good (at least Big East quality) football conference, and a really good basketball conference.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 1:00 PM CDT reply actions  

And then, if the BCS revokes AQ status,

sue their asses off.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

My thought exactly

But the political damage to the BCS of their revoking our status I’m guessing might keep them from going down that path. As it stands there are currently 6 conferences with BCS tie-ins. That number would remain as is should the leftover of the Big-12 simply expand from what remains.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, as part of this, sue both the SEC and the Pac-?? for tortious interference.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

if we are going to lawyer up?

think this will make it into a federal legal issue?

I’m not a lawyer and did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
EDSBS - come for the articles, stay for the trolling.

by Anon_the_younger on Sep 5, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am also not a lawyer,

but I do think that Chocopockets and Boren might well have lit the match that could blow up the BCS.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Since this is the hot thread at the moment

I’m looking for any articles that document Texas offering the BigXII network and then the aTm/UT network before starting the LHN. I’ve heard this is the way it happened but I’d like to add articles to the time line on this

As always PJ, nicely written. I’d comment but think I shall wait as I’m close to approaching the hope we join the Kansas Collegiate Athletic Conference.

The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
EDSBS - come for the articles, stay for the trolling.

by Anon_the_younger on Sep 5, 2011 1:11 PM CDT reply actions  

There's a lot of spin coming out of Texas these days

I’ve never heard this story about Texas pushing a conference network until just this week. I’ve heard rumors that they tried to cut a deal with A&M, but the details changed once A&M started moving. I really don’t know what the truth is right now, but it’s pretty clear that Texas was laying the foundation for the LHN years in advance of Nebraska leaving.

by Gaknar on Sep 5, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm on the same page with you here.

I never heard a WHIFF of “Big 12 Network” till everything started blowing up.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Total, unadulterated spin, about Texas pushing for a big 12 network

complete B.S. and a malicious lie from Longhorn. It’s trash that cannot be believed.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

One thing I think should never happen, no matter what,

is inviting Boise to join the Big 12. It smacks of desperation, is ludicrously far outside of anything like a natural conference “footprint”, as far as region goes, and gives us an albatross should their football program ever falter.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Rec'd for Occam's razor.

However, I too believe OU’s prez said what he meant. The problem is no one is actually listening to EVERYTHING he is saying. You’ve pick out some, the media has picked out others. This is why we can have nice things. Or honest conversations.

OU is pissed. They want the B12 to be a solid 12 school conference. They’re literally flying all over the place to have face to face conversations about moving forward as a conference, expanding back to 12, and who those schools will be. If they find the conversations not to their liking, they’ll entertain offers that best suit their long term needs. If the offers aren’t to their liking, ie, as you described above, they’ll circle back to make the B12 the best it can be.

One of the side benefits in my new addiction to FlightAware.com is tracking a couple of planes that belong to OU or their Alumni Assoc. They have been all over Gods green earth in the last week and a half. Austin, Stillwater, College Station, KC downtown (there was a flight from MHK and Columbia landing at Wheeler at about the same time), Pitt, South Bend, Lubbock, Fayetteville, and unfortunately Concord, CA (the closest airport to the PAC12 offices).

Who knows what they will do, but my gut is the same as yours. They will stay.

When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.

by BlackCats on Sep 5, 2011 3:26 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Let us hope

My worry is that they are realizing there are few viable expansion options because BYU, Pitt, ND, etc, either gave them a flat “no” when an offer of Big-12 membership was proposed or drove their demands so high as to make Texas look like Santa Claus to its Big-12 brethren.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think calling it a "merge" is the best semantics.

It’s more like the MWC would cease to exist, because the Forgotten Five would simply invite the MWC’s 4 or 5 best teams to be a part of the New Big 12.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

No,

what I’m trying to get away from is being part of destroying another conference, i.e., the Mountain West. That would be part of the sales job which would create positive national vibes for the merged conference. And if you read my post, before commenting, almost all mountain west teams stay in the party. Now, I think we’d want to call it something besides the Big 12, because with all these defections, the Big 12 as a “brand” is shot to hell. But the Big 12 owns the trademark for Big 8, and because there’d be 8 teams per division, I think “Big8” would be the perfect name.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't give a crap about perceptions at this point.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 5, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great, more good news

It’s a free-for-all according to Chip Brown. And the only offer we might get is the Big Least? Christ, just shoot me.
The best part in Brown’s article is how Texas may look to join the ACC (what the???). This, my friends, is a disaster all the way around. I’m still waiting for someone or something to pull these madmen back from the abyss, but its looking increasingly hopeless. What a cluster-f*ck.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 5, 2011 8:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Being a New Yorker,

this is something I could get very very excited about. But that’s just selfish of me.

by yeahboozin on Sep 6, 2011 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I live in Connecticut

60 miles from downtown Manhattan. Proximity to more KSU games would be great. But that doesn’t make me want to see K-State take a massive step down in football-conference quality. Even my friends who graduated from Big Least schools – Pitt, UConn, Rutgers, ‘Cuse – will be the first to admit that Big Least football is a joke. Yes, the basketball is the best but in the bigger picture its all about football. And if mass realignment breaks out the Big Least isn’t long for this world.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 6, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im from Jersey

Where were you all when I was there. I felt like i was the only tri-stater there

by ATL Jim on Sep 7, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, if you read

Chip Brown’s article, and Longhorn isn’t going to the Pac, then neither is Tech. Which leads to hope for 2 out of the following 3: KU, Mizzou, and KSU. My bet is they would go with KU and Mizzou. But KSU can always hope.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 5, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but if OU goes then UT is unlikely to hold a new Big 12 together and will probably go also.

OU is the one holding the best cards right now. Let’s just hope they’re using them to increase their power in the conference and not to pull the whole thing apart.

by yeahboozin on Sep 6, 2011 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Chip's article says Texas could go to the ACC, though, in order to keep their network intact

I don’t buy it, though. Texas is just in the middle of negotiating with the PAC12, and is throwing out this ACC nonsense as a bargaining chip.

by smitty3268 on Sep 6, 2011 3:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

point of order

his last column was refuted by the NY Times, and the Times author actually named his sources.

Chip Brown is enamored with using “sources” but if I ask the guy at the bar what he has heard that could count as a “source”, as such I am not inclined to put too much faith in what Mr. Brown writes.

The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.

by Anon_the_younger on Sep 6, 2011 5:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not entirely true.

Zaffirini was quoted by NYT, but not the lieutenant governor or the House speaker or the chair of the House Education Committee, Dan Branch.

All of them later confirmed to the Austin American-Statesman that they now were monitoring the situation closely, as Chip originally reported.

Zaffirini appears to be Texas’ version of Bernadette Gray-Little: Clueless.

by BracketCat on Sep 6, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

do you have article titles

or links? I’ll look myself for articles, but at this point not seen any. Trying to keep the timeline up to date and semi-accurate.

The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.

by Anon_the_younger on Sep 7, 2011 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting development that falls in line with Issue 2...
"@ChipBrownOB: Texas wants to hold the Big 12 together. Hard to believe, but true. In intense discussions with OU. May or may not work out."

Bring on the Cats
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain

by Panjandrum on Sep 5, 2011 11:51 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd love to listen in on these discussions.

I’m hoping it is in some form a Tom Jackson-Michael Irvin impersonation – “Are you retarded?”

by yeahboozin on Sep 6, 2011 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have you seen the tweets from SoonerScoop?

Supposedly Boren’s demands are eventual expansion back to 12 (as he said earlier), to include a school the caliber of Nebraska (good luck finding one available not named Notre Dame without raiding someone else), to restore stability, and … here’s the kicker … a new commissioner who’s more than just a Texas muppet. A strong visionary, I believe was the word used.

Powers and Boren were supposed to be meeting today. This feels like one giant game of chicken between two massive egotistical institutions, with the Forlorn Five serving as the cars.

by BracketCat on Sep 6, 2011 2:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

A school the caliber of Nebraska

Would BYU count? I’d think it would, but they don’t have the same tradition.

Sounds like expanding back to 12 within a few years is going to have to happen, which I think is just common sense at this point.

At this point, if the conference is saved then Beebe really does have to step down no matter how much he can claim responsibility for fixing it. There’s just no credibility left with him with the schools, and especially after that million dollar marketing campaign.

by smitty3268 on Sep 6, 2011 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I prefer

one like Texas that gives us a boat load of money 8-)

The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.

by Anon_the_younger on Sep 6, 2011 5:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

HI WE'RE HERE WITH YOUR NEXT PAYMENT

The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
EDSBS Censor Librorum Promulgatio Media

by jonfmorse on Sep 6, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If all of that is true

Then I may suddenly become a Sooner fan about 350 days a year. Demanding that Beebe be fired? Heroism in action. Awesomesauce in a jar. It’s nigh unto pornography.

The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
EDSBS Censor Librorum Promulgatio Media

by jonfmorse on Sep 6, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have to applaud him

If Boren can squeeze all – or even some – of these demands out of Texas and keep the conference together he’ll have done every Big-12 member a service. We definitely need to go back to 12, definitely need a real commissioner (where on earth has Beebe been??), and definitely need strong, long-term contractual agreements between all members with prohibitive exit fees written in clear legal terms.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 6, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I just have a feeling that OU is stirring the pot to get the conference moving

The Big XII has not been leading in any fashion since the conference was founded…from networks, to expansion, to marketing they have been last in line from the start. It seems to me that OU is sick of it and is taking the opportunity to get them moving in the right direction – sans Bebe. Sounds like a plan to me.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

by mac attack ict on Sep 6, 2011 9:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed

and I hope you are right. Real leadership is needed and if Boren sees this as an opportunity to provide that and keep the conference upright and proactive (for once) more power to him. Let’s hope that is his goal and not blowing up college football for a wagon ride out west.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 6, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Could Boren be pulling a Chancellor Palpatine?

Doing all this so that he can take the commish role and take over the Big 12? Yes, I’m throwing Star Wars into this?

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Sep 6, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tell you what

he couldn’t do any worse, and probably would do a hell of a lot better.

by CT-K-Stater on Sep 6, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

UT are the Trade Federation? Or the Separatists?

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi

by Catbacker98 on Sep 6, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think they'd be the T.F.

A big, powerful, intimidating pawn Boren is using to ultimately stage a war and allow him to seize power

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Sep 7, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I tell you what...let me add an addendum to my theory...

OU recommits to the Big 12 in the next few days with UT. “Tweaks” are made. A commitment to go forward with the existing nine becomes solidified.

Within a month, Dan Beebe will be replaced.

The SEC then adds WVU, and the rest of my dominoes fall.

No matter what happens, Beebe is out of a job. Period.

Bring on the Cats
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain

by Panjandrum on Sep 7, 2011 12:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Your last two sentences are your most important.

Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)

by K.S.B. on Sep 7, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jayhawk Fan Here

For my money, the only way this conference survives is with equal revenue sharing. Luring BYU, Louisville, Pitt sounds good on paper but they see what Texas has done to two conferences and I can promise you that they will want no part of it unless there is equal revenue sharing and there is a stable conference. WITH that, the negotiations for TV contract will be worth it for everyone involved, including Texas.

JMO.

by RC in Texas on Sep 9, 2011 5:18 PM CDT reply actions  

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