Big 12 Balkanization: Where Do We Go From Here?
The bell doth toll for the Big 12, a fractured, dysfunctional conference that probably outlived its valid life span three years ago.
Assuming that's the case, where does K-State land in the new world order? Based on the following assumptions, I present my analysis after the jump.
Assumption 1: Texas is not going to the Pac-12.
I think this is pretty clear after reading this article. The Pac-12 will not allow the Longhorn Network in its current form, it most likely will not accommodate Texas' unorthodox request to be in a division with UCLA and USC, and it appears Texas doesn't want the appearance of following Oklahoma anywhere.
Assumption 2: Missouri will choose the Big Ten or the SEC over the Pac-12.
Maybe a tenuous assumption, but it seems Mizzou has enough options that it doesn't need to look west.
Assumption 3: The Oklahoma schools will gain admittance to the Pac-12 without Texas.
There's some question as to whether they have the votes to do so, but let's just assume OU wouldn't have pushed things this far without personal assurances from Larry Scott that it wouldn't be a problem.
Assumption 4: John Currie is looking for the most stable and lucrative option available, regardless of what his coaches want.
This should go without saying, but Kevin Kietzman claims the coaches think the Big East is the best fit for us. Maybe, but it's also clearly the most unstable and uncertain.
Luckily, Kietzman isn't as connected as he thinks he is, so I'm not too concerned that Currie would turn down a foothold in a guaranteed superconference to join a "better fit."
In order of desirability, based on what we think we know today, K-State's best options are:
Plan A: Join the ACC as part of a pod comprising Kansas, Texas and Texas Tech.
This clearly is the most ideal outcome, but perhaps the least likely. We would maintain our football recruiting ties in Texas, but gain enormous basketball cachet in a conference with KU, Duke and North Carolina.
In addition, our profile would rise with East Coast exposure and more games on ESPN. Stability? The ACC would be the clear winner in realignment by adding Texas — only the Big Ten could match that by adding Notre Dame.
The other pods likely would be Clemson-Florida State-Georgia Tech-Miami, the four Carolina schools, and Boston College-Maryland-Virginia-Virginia Tech.
Think Frank Martin would like semi-regular trips to Boston, Miami and Washington, D.C. for recruiting purposes? And we already beat KU and Texas like a drum in most sports, so those are the two schools I'd like to stay with.
This plan hinges on Texas bringing along conference mates to stock its pod, but Baylor not being included in that group. It also requires approval from the ACC, which is academically elitist, regionalist and traditionalist.
But the winds of change are coming. Maybe John Swofford can convince his membership to take the plunge in order to ward off Big Ten and SEC advances. There is talk they were interested in KU last year.
It's a long shot, but perhaps the combined forces of Currie's personality, DeLoss Dodds' loyalty to his alma mater, and a united front from the Kansas Board of Regents might just make it feasible.
In this scenario, Baylor probably ends up in the Big East with Iowa State, which might be enough to keep the lawsuits unfiled and the legislators from howling.
Plan B: Join the Pac-12 as part of a pod comprising Kansas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.
There are a lot of things to dislike about a Texas-less Pac-16 — travel distances, California-centrism, loss of Texas recruiting grounds, snobbish elitism, you name it.
But when push comes to shove, it's a more stable, more progressive, more egalitarian alternative than the Big East.
It's also the only possibility other than the Big East to be mentioned by a remotely credible source (The San Jose Mercury-News), which gives me a small shred of hope it could happen.
If we have a chance at the Pac-12, we would be flat-out stupid to pass it up to go to the Big East, drawbacks be damned.
Also, I think the Pac-12 would have to go to pods to get the needed votes from Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and possibly Utah. not to mention the Pacific Northwest schools. All of them want to maintain trips to California.
Plan C: Join the Pac-12 as part of an Eastern Division.
Basically the same as above, but with worse travel and probably worse long-term stability. Colorado and the Arizona schools would agitate endlessly.
It's ironic that so many conferences are in a hurry to repeat the Big 12's mistakes: Weld together two disparate conference groupings with no regard for tradition or cultural fit, with no regard for anything but the next TV contract.
But I'd still rather be a part of that structure and then ride out a messy divorce years in the future than be left behind in this round and become a new SMU, hoping to regain a seat at the table at some uncertain point down the road.
Plan D: Join the Big East in any configuration.
This is a clear, distant third choice, but it might be the only one available to us depending on what Missouri and Texas do. Its ramifications and organization already have been discussed endlessly, so I won't rehash all that here.
None of these options are ideal and none are as good as a stable, functional Big 12, but this appears to be what we are left with. We do not control our own fates in this slimy mess.
But the positive development to take away from today is that a Texas-Pac-12 marriage looks increasingly unlikely.
If Currie plays his cards right (and thank God he and Kirk Schulz are the ones making this monumental decision for us at this key juncture in K-State history), seats might open up in:
- The ACC, if Texas can convince that league to admit its loyal lapdogs. I know Chip Brown has speculated about OU and OSU following Texas if the Pac-12 turns them down, but the whole point of the exercise is to escape the LHN. That won't happen in the ACC, from all accounts. I think at the point that OU probably would swallow the bullet and join the SEC in an attempt to save some face. And if that happens, our chances at the Pac-12 if it ever wants to expand past 12 go up exponentially.
- Or the Pac-12, which seemed like nothing more than wishful thinking a week ago. Think about it: Without Texas and Texas Tech (who they're simply not taking without Texas, sorry), where else can the Pac-12 expand to get to 16? It's not taking Boise State, it's not taking BYU and it's not taking any Mountain West or WAC schools. That leaves expansion beyond the Mississippi River, which also is beyond retarded. No, we're not majorly desirable, but we're better than that option. The only threat is Missouri, but I've already outlined that I think they look east first, second and third.
I invite your comments, criticisms and panic below. One thing's for sure: There still are so many chaotic elements left to this thing that we might yet end up with majorly unforeseen outcomes.
What if Texas surprises everyone, scraps the LHN and joins the Big Ten? What if the Oklahoma schools are voted down by the Pac-12 and come crawling back to Texas on their knees? What if Cylons invade Earth tomorrow and declare the Sun Belt to be the supreme conference? To quote our favorite burnt orange mouthpiece, Stay Tuned.
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I didn't realize this was coming,
or I’d have held off on my own take. Sorry about that.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
Two perspectives is better than one, I always say.
It is pretty funny that we cockblocked each other, tho. LOL
by BracketCat on Sep 13, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Besides, we took two totally different perspectives.
You’re looking at Big 12 life support and I’ve looking at superconference musical chairs.
Both perspectives are equally valid at this point, given all the misinformation and uncertainty flying around. Hell, no teams have even actually left at this point.
This is true.
I pretty much think that OU is out the door, but wouldn’t be shocked if they’re simply playing chicken with UT or something.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
If you hadn't said anything I would have thought it was a coordinated effort.
You both even start off with assumptions!
I loved both posts though.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Sep 13, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, I take it this means you don't see any hope for a diminished, but still viable, OU-less Big 12?
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
Not really.
I’m a realpolitik, pessimist sort. I’ve assumed we were heading for dissolution ever since the moment Boren opened his big, fat mouth.
If I’ve learned one thing in all this, it’s that schools don’t speak until everything’s already done behind closed doors with handshake deals. THEN they go public, once it’s already fait accompli.
If Texas wants to stick around then a rebuilt B12 is definitely viable
But I’m 99% sure Texas would leave. Even if they ended up as an independent, I think they’d still leave.
I'd love to see K-State in the Pac
But only because I live in Phoenix, but it would certainly make it easier to catch a couple of games a year.
by williewildcrack on Sep 13, 2011 3:45 PM CDT reply actions
From my limited experience
and short-term (4 years) residence in the desert Southwest, I have learned that the Phoenix metropolitan area has a surprisingly high number of KSU alums/fans. A 5 hour drive to LA (UCLA, USC), 6 hours to Tempe (ASU), and 8 hours to Tuscon (UA) would be close enough I’d attend tons (relative to recent history) of KSU football road games in a PAC-## scenario.
That aspect would be quite sweet for me.
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
And unlike the midwest...
You could travel to road games in the late fall and not have to worry about shitty weather.
by williewildcrack on Sep 13, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
We are so crashing at your place for the Fiesta Bowl.
And by “we” I mean all of BOTC. Hope you have lots of guacamole.
For the chips.
It’s the Tostidos Fiesta Bowl.
They make chips.
Never mind, just have lots of cold beer.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
I love this point
It’s ironic that so many conferences are in a hurry to repeat the Big 12’s mistakes: Weld together two disparate conference groupings with no regard for tradition or cultural fit, with no regard for anything but the next TV contract.
by samuelbryant on Sep 13, 2011 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
At least the founding of the original confernces was done geographically. These superconferences are at a major disadvantage b/c of travel and time zones IMO.
I think the problem with the B12 has always been Tejas and the continual accumulation of power at the expense of her playmates.
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 13, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Eventually the SuperConferences implode
Too many headaches, too much infighting. It’s just too bad they first have to reign destruction on college football before ultimately eating their own.
I hadn't heard that prediction yet. Then what after they implode?
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 13, 2011 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The Rapture
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
Well, if I'm being wildly optimistic
(for anyone but SEC fans), this happens:
http://www.nunesmagician.com/2011/8/12/2358742/after-the16pocalypse-yet-another-conference-realignment-project
I think the Big XII could have gotten past that with some work
Yeah, Texas is different, but they’re a lot closer culturally to the Midwest than to California. I still don’t see how that’s going to work considering how much Texas in general likes to tweak California.
big 12/pac 12
As a Cowboy fan living in Kansas I would like to see the big 12 hold together. I keep hoping the school in norman was just holding out on texas until the latter agreed to share revenue equally. I don’t think the lhn is a big deal if they are not allowed to show high school games.
If the big 12 folds I would like to see the Kansas schools join the Oklahoma schools in the pac 12. At least I could make it to two road games per year.
OU is a more staunch supporter of unequal revenue sharing for tier 1-2 rights than Texas at this point.
Indeed
Texas reportedly offered equal Tier 1 and Tier 2 revenue sharing and grants of rights.
OU wasn’t listening. LHN is the deal-breaker now.
To be honest - it sounds like OU's regents just want the prestige of the Pac 10.
I’m not sure we could get them to stay if we gave up the LHN completely.
They allegedly weren't even in the mood to negotiate anything when the UT folks showed up.
It’s very weird to me, now that I think about it, that it’s entirely possible the old Big 8 could be split up between five different conferences when this is settled if Missouri ends up in the SEC and Iowa State has a hard landing.
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Big Merger
Big East + Big 12 (-5) = Super Conference
FSU now "exploring options".
And all of a sudden, the ACC doesn’t look that swell.
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If they're trying to bolster things
they may decide they want the cream of the Big East.
Which leaves us in fucksville unless we head west somehow.
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Well, if Chip's right about OU, OSU and TTU to the Pac-Large
(and I say this with a massive grain of salt, considering his track record concerning any school not named Texas), and UT, KU, MU and Baylor to the ACC, the Pac’s still going to need another team. The three most accessible are BYU, ISU and KSU. I think I know which of the three they would be most inclined to take.
Why in the name of the flying spaghetti monster
would the ACC want Baylor?
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by jonfmorse on Sep 13, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't know. That's why I added a Chip disclaimer.
I assume he’s thinking of avoiding legal/political entanglements if they ditch Tech as well as aTm.
Of course, I also don’t think there’s any way in hell Tech makes it to the Pac without Texas. Nor do I think the ACC would be Mizzou’s first, second or perhaps even third choice. But that’s just me.
Just not in any conference which has Tejas.
They will cannibalize any conference they join. Their gravity is simply too strong.
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 14, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
He's even more full of it than usual on this.
And that’s saying something.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
Must be the water.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Sep 13, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
because of the drought, he and Beergut have been drinking repurposed "blue" water for months now.
They might even be sharing a tinfoil hat.
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 14, 2011 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I Don't Like
The idea of landing in the PAC. Any weekday BB Games would air so late at night that you wouldn’t, in most likely hood, be able to watch or listen to them. That makes the Big E a better choice in my mind.
I concur with BC’s point that the Big E becomes a much higher profile football conference in one swoop. Still not on total par with the others but with all of the parts necessary to start bringing it to a still higher standard.
I don’t see the ACC scenario happening at all, but stranger things have occurred in the past.
Bottom line for me is, I think the Big 12 is dead. You can’t clear up the water until you get the pigs out of stream. We all know who the pig is. Bevo’s been in disguise all these years.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
Should have said`
Any weekday BB Games emanating from the Pac time zone……
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
But, but, but...
then the weekday games start while I’m still at work! (in the Big East)
/sarcasm
You are right that the basketball games on weekdays would start a bit late for Central Time ‘home’ away crowds. However, I feel confident nobody on the decision-making ends of all this is considering anything like that. For shame, too.
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
How Right You Are
on both accounts. Those of you who are still young and productive like late nights, of course. As for myself, I refuse to quit making testosterone. I’m just going to be very careful how I use it.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
I don't like the PAC either
Just something about it makes me think we would be a permanent doormat in that conference. Still, it would be hard to turn down all the extra money to go to the Big East instead. I really like the ACC option, but it’s probably a long shot.
If you can compete in the B12, you can represent in the PAC.
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 13, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
we already have several CA players on the team
or those that went to juco in CA.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Sep 13, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
No reason we couldn't view for second place in our pod or third place in our division.
Colorado sucks, Arizona and Arizona State don’t frighten me, neither does Utah, KU is KU, so that just leaves OU and OSU. Which is considerably easier than what we have now, which is OU, OSU, UT, TTU, aTm, Baylor, etc.
While I enjoyed the game itself
I hated watching the Mizzou-ASU game go until 1:00 AM.
by Gaknar on Sep 13, 2011 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I went to sleep comfortably
around 11 pm, no problem. ;-P
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
I figured it out
OU’s intentions are just stall tactics. They want to wait for Landry Jones to either graduate or declare for the draft after this season, before BYU looms on the schedule again. They don’t want to be losing any games to the Cougars again. Once either of the two happen, they will let the conference to extend an invite to BYU and we can live happily ever after.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
This would be logical
if Texas was desperately trying to leave the conference to get away from us.
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Pretty much with you on all this, Bracket
IF the Big-12 implodes – and that looks increasingly likely given Oklahoma’s apparently unyielding stance – then the best two options are 1) getting a PAC invite, and 2) a Big-12/ACC merger of the “leftovers” following “SuperConference Realignment Madness” . I noted this in a FanPost threat back on September 1st, here.
The way I see it is as follows:
- The ACC loses Florida State or Clemson or Virginia Tech to the SEC (Va. Tech would have a difficult time splitting with Virginia, though, and tough to see UVA wanting anything to do with the SEC). They also lose Maryland or North Carolina to the Big-10. So if 2 schools leave that brings the ACC total down to 10.
- The Big-12 loses Oklahoma and OSU to the PAC, along with Mizzou to the SEC or (their wet dream) the Big-10. That kicks us down to 6. The Big-12 commissioner – DeLoss Dodds – pushes for a full merger of the remaining 6 into the ACC, allowing Texas to alleviate the hassle of Texas Tech and Baylor wreaking havoc in the Texas state legislature and giving UT some local games. KU and KSU bring basketball, Iowa State gives them a traditional rival and conference ally also alleviating (somewhat) travel burdens by ensuring at least two games closer to their homes.
Potential flies in the ointment: If the Big Least gets poached by the Big-10 (Pitt, Rutgers, ‘Cuse) or the SEC (WVU, Louisville) then the ACC might look for Least teams to add (UConn, whoever remains outside of Cincy and South Florida). Another problem: Without Texas in tow, the PAC would still need to add two more teams to fulfill Weasel Larry Scott’s 16-team SuperConference eastward-looking Manifest Destiny. But you can shake up the scenarios where the ACC loses 4 teams, etc, leaving a hole for 8 teams to fill, etc. Maybe the best play in all this if Realignment Armageddon occurs is to wait for the smoke from the first bombs to clear and then assess the situation and play our cards right?
while the odds of it happening
are about the same as me being President one day, my dream scenario is KSU landing in the Big 10. Still fairly regional, and KSU is a good cultural fit with schools like Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota.
I'm not so sure on Iowa
But I can buy it…I imagine the tension between us and Nebraska would be huge.
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
What's important from a fans perspective
Reading this post, as well as mulling over why I like the Big 10, got me thinking about what factors are important purely from a fans perspective (talk of good academics need not apply). So I wrote up this list of factors in order of importance for the fan.
1. We still have a seat at the Big Boy table: every few decades college football has had a major shakeup and each time there have been obvious haves and have nots (division of 1A and 1AA, the BCS). Another major shakeup seems eminent and priority number one for everyone is to be one of the haves.
2. We will be competetive: This is multi-faceted and not unrelated to number 1. This is having the recruiting pipelines as well having the money and facilities to maintain a big time program. At the same time we do not want to be in a division that is too opressive (the A&M Quixote principle) although the SEC west is to only place I see worth being scared of. This is part of why I am not entirely against the Big East, we would be in the division race most years, but this runs too great a risk of violating goal 1.
3. We will have regional rivalries: Perhaps this is just my bias from living in Kansas City, But there is nothing quite like having rival fan bases in your back yard. Also there are all sorts of good logistical reasons for this. You can easily travel to games against your rival. The other sports will certainly appreciate the reduced travel time which leads to
4. Division mates are within a days drive: This would be my biggest problem with being in a PAC division. Colorado is already pretty far. Utah and Arizona are very far away. Right now KSU has a fan base that travels pretty well. You can forget about that if we have to travel to Utah or South Florida, and this is a big boon to the Athletic dept. as a whole. The only way I see this one happening is a Big12/Big East merger or all of the Big 10 presidents getting drunk at a party and deciding in their stupor that they want to expand into the plain.
These are just my thoughts. Argue away if you feel otherwise.
Well, we've determined one thing.
Beergut can’t hang with me in a live chat.
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Link? Did you attend a tinfoil hat chat?
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 13, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
EDSBS Live.
He tried starting some crap with me and TB. ;)
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Loved when he asked me how I was going to feel...
…about having two degrees from non-AQ schools.
I think “job smack” or “car smack” are the only types of trash talk that even compare to “degree smack.”
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Sep 13, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
There were three times when he took almost 2 minutes to think up a comeback.
Poor guy. He’s not even going to be able to keep up with SEC folk.
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goddamned chocopockets
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 13, 2011 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
We didn't even have to bring up...
…that we have as many conference titles and more division titles than Texas A&M.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
Or that we had been to the championship game 3 times.
Oh Bishop of all the times to fumble the ball…why against chocopockets?
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Sep 13, 2011 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
What I didn't realize until two minutes ago
was that we’re fourth all-time in the Big 12 for wins.
A&M isn’t even FIFTH.
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by jonfmorse on Sep 13, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes fourth even with bad years Snyder and the Ron Prince experiment.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Sep 13, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
That really IS impressive.
When I was a kid, I assumed KSU was some huge dynasty football school because when they came to Columbia they always stomped us and traveled so many fans that almost a quarter of the stadium turned purple.
"What if all those cats had to recruit like the rest of us?" ----- Texas
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 14, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
They are on my NCAA 12 account
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
I'm sure that ended well.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Sep 13, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really worth seeing.
Out of nowhere, he just started in with “So which FCS conference is K-State going to join now?” and then kept trying to talk smack.
Until I pointed out Texas A&M, with all their tradition and history, was 3-3 against K-State BEFORE SNYDER.
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And I reminded him that, with all of its history, tradition and resources...
…A&M is 61-59 in Big 12 play, while K-State is 70-50.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Sep 13, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really do need a link to this.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
Houston Cougars
Make it work! I want my Coogs to be in a BCS conference that makes since geographically.
And, they have a lot of history with several of the Big 12 schools. They would bring a lot. The Forbes Business links below offer information:
The Case for Houston to the Big 12: Economic Impact – Kristi Dosh
Commitment Makes Houston Cougars Smart Choice for Big 12 Invite – Chadd Scott
Big 12 Should Snap Up The University of Houston – Kristi Dosh
Houston Cougars Were an Athletic Powerhouse and Can be Again – Chadd Scott
Please, pardon the intrusion. By a Coog born in Parsons.
Hey! A fellow Coog!
I went to UH for law school, so I’m a secondary Coog fan. Not sure if UH will be welcomed by the Big 12, but you’re welcome at BOTC.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Sep 13, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Houston Cougars
Sorry, my links did not work. Try these:
http://businessofcollegesports.com/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/09/01/big-12-should-snap-up-the-university-of-houston/
http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2011/09/commitment-makes-houston-cougars-smart-choice-for-big-12-invite/
http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2011/09/houston-cougars-were-an-athletic-powerhouse-and-can-be-again/
Thanks TB
Thanks and congratulations on attending a great law school,
No problem
Just for future reference, you can use the “Reply” button to respond to a certain comment.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
Does anyone have an all-time Big 12 revenue sharing breakdown?
I know that in the last few years, we’ve received less than the average, which means we’re taking a larger share than average from the portion of revenues which are evenly split; i.e., we’re a “net recipient”.
But I have a suspicion that over the life of the Big 12, we have been a “net payer”, thanks to our assload of ABC appearances back in the glory days, and I’d like to be able to verify that.
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I don't know where to find that
Each athletic department lists financial information on its Web site. I doubt that goes all the way back to 1995, but it may go back a ways.
Other than that, maybe a FOIA request?
Love where you’re going here, hope the result is as you suspect.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
It would be nice to just be able to tell a few jackasses
“Yeah, uh, we pulled our weight. You wanna brush off Iowa State and Baylor, well, I can’t argue with that, but we weren’t a drain on this conference.”
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KStateSports lists TV appearances since 2002...
…which might be a start, but isn’t really looking what you’re working for.
Shoot me an email. Maybe we can think of something.
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Bring On The Cats
Paging MadCat
He’s an accomplished Googler. Maybe we could find old news articles with the monetary distribution.
Also, are there any law students on here? Use that free West/LEXIS access to find those news articles. Unless that’s a violation of your usage agreement or your school’s ethics code. I don’t advocate that type of activity.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
Just based on scanning season articles on Wikipedia
and looking at the “TV” column, I’m sure enough that I’m right to go ahead and run my mouth.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
EDSBS Censor Librorum Promulgatio Media
Ethically, I think so long
as we don’t just go in and start looking up cases without a set purpose (Ex: “I wonder if my law professor has ever been arrested…”) in mind, it’s not a violation. Also, I think we’d have to be working for pay to actually violate the usage agreement.
This should be interesting…I’ve never used Westlaw for anything other than cases…what exactly should I search for?
It should have a section to search news articles
We’d want to know what the revenue distribution to each school was for each year (1996-present). I know they’ve printed that information in recent years, but I don’t know if newspapers would have printed it back in the ’90s.
I wrote my journal comment on collective bargaining in baseball, so I looked up some news articles using Westlaw or NEXIS. But again, check to make sure you’re not committing any violations. I’d hate to have someone get hit with an ethical violation for something like this.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Sep 14, 2011 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I truly appreciate all of you who are discussing this and keeping me updated on what's the latest and thinking of creative ways to approach/solve the current situation.
But I’m just exhausted by all of it at this point.
Here comes my “walk to school in the snow” thought: What makes me as sad as the potential disintegration of what makes college sports great is the actual disintegration of journalistic integrity and the desire to serve the public best with accurate news more than the desire to be known as the individual who was first to announce the “news”.
Now to my whiskey and to bed…
I too am almost to that point
apathy, but the next wrinkle always seems to give me some sort of (twenty) second wind, and I end up searching for more and more.
I’ve devised a teeter totter plan in which I waffle on my opinion from one day to the next citing unnamed imaginary friends in my head, but I cover my own ass by tagging “stay tuned” to the end of each of my posts.
Wait that strategy might be already employed by someone. Stay tuned…
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Let Them Walk!!!!
I believe the Big12 can still be saved without Oklahoma & Oklahoma St. & still be able to keep the conference BCS standard approval. The Big12 can easily reach out to schools like U of Houston, SMU, Tulsa, BYU, Boise State, Fresno St, Tulane or Memphis. From a geography standpoint it makes a little more sense joining the PAC12, ACC, or Big East. Rivalries & traditions will definitely be missed & never forgotten with the departed members. Existence traditions & rivalries will continue while newer one’s will surface with the Big12 newest members. Having Texas as a pipelines for recruiting will also make the Big12 newest members more competitive. Conference Revenue Sharing would also help bring schools with less than misfortune stadiums & faculties up standards. If the Big East could save it’s conference so can Dan BeBe and the Big12.
by Joe Parker on Sep 14, 2011 1:23 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
It will be up to Texas
If OU goes, I think they do to. But if we can convince them to stay, then the league could be rebuilt.
Mountain. West.
Realignment is a football move. You’re not a football school, really. The “legend” of Bill Snyder doesn’t extend much past Geary County. In ACC Country, nobody’s heard of the guy. The Tobacco Road bunch only covets KU for their basketball. Frankly, KSU would likely be a second tier ACC football program. There is a rumor in NC about Texas, but KSU is not mentioned.
As a displaced Husker fan, I like the idea of KU, KState, ISU, and Missouri coming to the B1G and adding some Big 8 tradition (and padding our wins). Never gonna happen. One of those seats is reserved for Notre Dame.
The Big East is a bad fit.
So is the PAC-x.
Just my opinion, but that’s it for the BCS conferences.
Basketball will land on their feet because of Basketball. Mizzou has TV sets in KC and StL.
by Herbie on Sep 15, 2011 7:26 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Second tier in ACC? Dead wrong there Sir.
I live in ACC country and there are only 3 teams worth a hoot in football in the conference.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
Are you arguing with a door knob?
Interwebs are cool
Pouring out Oakheart for my dead homey 2396 since 9/15/11. RIP
by Spider_Monkey on Sep 15, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I didn’t say they were a good conference. I said KState would be in the bottom half.
FSU, Miami, UNC, Boston College, VT, Georgia Tech, and probably NC State- all better than KSU. Hence “second tier”.
And from my Husker perspective, KSU basketball looks like Duke!
But from Duke’s perspective, KState looks like Nebraska.
So I can’t see the ACC thing is all I’m sayin.
I’m in NC. You indicated you live in the area. Have YOU heard KSU mentioned?
by Herbie on Sep 15, 2011 9:55 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
ACC < B12 in both BB and FB
So whatever you think, there are lots of reasons to think KSU would see more success there than we currently have.
by smitty3268 on Sep 16, 2011 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let's break it down
UNC’s program has pretty much been set back a decade by the Butch Davis, Georgia Tech lost to KU last year-that’s enough said, Boston College is consistently mediocre, NC State have they done anything since Phillip Rivers? Virginia Tech is overrated and Miami well who knows. I don’t see why we couldn’t compete there? We’re not in the bottom half of the Big 12 since it started. Why would we be there?
"It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat! "-Hank Hill
Exactly.
The 3 teams I mentioned are: FSU, VT, UNC. Clemson would be 4th.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
Don't argue with this guy.
He’s just a Husker troll, scrumming for an argument. Best to just laugh at him and move along.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)














