7 DAYS TO KICKOFF: Collin Klein
by BracketCat on Aug 27, 2011 12:00 PM CDT
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#7 Collin Klein
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Position: Quarterback Previous College: None Projection: Starter Status: On Scholarship |
Collin Klein (b. Sept. 19, 1989) is going to be K-State's starting quarterback in 2011. I know some people still are holding out for a logarithmic improvement by Justin Tuggle, but it's time to come to grips with the inevitable reality.
Klein has taken control of the offense in much the same way Arthur Brown has taken control of the defense. He leads conditioning sessions, he runs 7-on-7 drills, he schedules extra Saturday practices — that's the mark of a leader.
On top of that, he demonstrated a markedly better passing touch and command of the offense in the spring game — certainly better than anything Sammuel Lamur or Tuggle displayed. And we know he can run.
He had K-State's longest touchdown run last season (51 yards against Kansas). He had the most rushing yards (127) in a starting debut by a quarterback in K-State history (against Texas).
And he's the only returning Big 12 quarterback with at least two 100-yard games last year (the other was Taylor Martinez, who's now in the Big Ten). Sounds tailor-made to run Bill Snyder's mobile quarterback offense to me.
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Collin Klein
Congratulations to Collin on being the starting QB. This kid was not a big time recruit, played end 2 years ago, played the running QB last year, and apparently through hard work and dedication has learned to read the defense and improved his passing..
He played end?
I thought it was reciever?
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
You are correct
although I believe pc was (correctly) thinking along those pass-catching lines (tight-end, WR). A technicality.
Well I understand that...
I was just trying to remember where he exactly played at, more for my benefit. But your right, same thing really.
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
In the old days
they called em “split ends” or “wide ends.” Really. Then the term became wide receiver.
oh hail the Purple and White
the Texas game was awesome
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
by Anon_the_younger on Aug 27, 2011 3:29 PM CDT reply actions
Damn straight!
What a Collin Klein preview!
by Jeremy Pontow on Aug 27, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Only drawback I see to Klein
is that he isn’t the fastest. Maybe that’s changed in a year. However, a Collin Klein to Bryce Brown option would be BITCHIN’.
Proud Kansas State 2009 Graduate, KMAN City Commission and County Commission Reporter.
EMAW 4 LIFE
Fast enough to run away from both UT and KU.
What? Too soon?
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky
Collin Klein isn't slow at all.
And he’s about 10x faster than Coffman was, so…
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
Yeah.
I mean he’s not Ell Roberson, but the guy is fast for a QB and especially for a guy of his size.
There’s no question Klein can be among the best running QBs in the conference. How well he can pass is going to determine how good a player he is this year.
I won't fear the molasses sweep this year! At least, not as much.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Molasses sweep!
I am so proud!
In the back of my mind, I’m thinking that if Klein looks pretty good this year, it will reconfirm my notion that Snyder was not a particularly good game day coach last year. Coffman ultimately wasn’t terrible, probably not even bad. But he was so, so, so limited. Aside from the occasional wobbling Hail Mary, I don’t know how many passes of longer than ten yards I recall last season. And the fore-mentioned Molasses Sweep was just painful to watch and pretty much never effective against anyone.
In his two games with extended playing time, Klein’s offense looked really good. He was recruited as a pro-style passer, so he almost certainly had to have a better arm than Coffman last year. And he and DT in the backfield together was a really potent combo. Plus, Klein would have come into his junior year as a seasoned vet.
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by MrHappyMushroom on Aug 27, 2011 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I could not possibly rec this hard enough...
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
Same here ):
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
I guess that depends on what you mean by "good game day coach"
I actually agreed with this sentiment towards the end of the season, but now that I’ve had more reflection and BlackCats’ revelation about Snyder not always playing the best player for development purposes I would have to disagree.
First of all, I know for a fact that Klein was having problems throwing the ball in practice last year. Not in the mechanical aspects of it, his physical passing ability is fine, but in the mental aspect of it. he would never pull the trigger, so to speak, and was too unsure of what he was seeing and wouldn’t throw the ball unless he knew for certain it was going to be a completed pass. In effect, he was “thinking too much”, as they say.
Now, if Snyder felt that Klein had the potential to be a good QB, but was not quite there yet mentally, it makes sense that he would keep him out of games so he could preserve his confidence until they had built up that aspect of his game. If you remember, they did not give him too many passing opportunities last year, probably because they didn’t want to destroy his confidence. They only played him when they had to, and when he got better, they gave him more game-day opportunities.
So, if by “good game day coach” you mean somebody who only thinks about that day’s game and how best to win that game irregardless of how it affects the future, then yes, he wasn’t that good.
But if you make allowances for someone who is holding players back to maximize their potential in the process of building a program up, I think he was a fine game day coach. No, Snyder has never been accused of being a great game day coach, but that is probably because he keeps his eye on the long game. Maybe he does that too much, which might hurt him in limited situations, but I think in the long run it makes a better program.
If Klein had started all year, and had thrown more interceptions than touchdowns or had an atrocious number of sacks from holding onto the ball too long, would that really have been better for his development? You can’t really prove it either way, I suppose, but I am fine with how the season transpired last year. Coffman did his job, and I thank him for it. I believe that Snyder knows what he is doing and it was probably in the best in interest of the long-term program success. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, and maybe this was one of his, but I personally don’t think so.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 28, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very much agree here.
What game specifically did we lose last year that we would have won with Klein playing all the minutes? I’m not sure there is one even.
Snyder sometimes does strange things. As we all said throughout the season, some specific playcalls were downright stupid. But the guy has coached some good ones before (see: ‘03 against OU). And anyone who doesn’t think he squeezed every ounce out of the limited talents of Carson Coffman is nuts.
The defense is the reason the team was mediocre last year. I know, not the most original sentiment. But one worth remembering when considering the QB situation.
I do think an extra offseason and focus on the position has helped Klein. Everyone has said he improves everyday. I assume that is with his confidence, passing, leadership, and understanding of the playbook. The Klein of today would have started all games last season. But I think, luckily for us, the Klein of today is a much much better player than the guy we saw last year.
Another real life example...
My high school coach played this sophmore quarterback we had over the senior qb during my senior year because he had better set of skills. However mentally the kid wasn’t ready and it had a horrible first few games and never really reached his potential at the position even in later years. It also didn’t help that our coach was an ass.
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
I was fortunate.
I only played for one coach in my playing days that I didn’t like. The sad thing was, he coached my favorite sport, and basically ruined the last 5 games of my senior year with his d-baggery.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
This is a good point.
Also, as yeahboozin asks in his reply, what game would we have won in 2010 with Klein starting instead of Coffman? Lacking a way to definitively answer this either way, I strongly believe the answer is zero.
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
I don't understand that reasoning.
There’s no way to definitively PROVE we’d have won X game with Klein as the starter, so you “strongly believe the answer is zero”? I mean, there’s no way to prove we’d have won X game with Landry Jones or Brandon Weeden at QB last year either, but I sure as heck would have liked to try it. While Klein wasn’t on THEIR level, the reasoning is still the same: while I can’t PROVE we’d have won this game or that one with Klein as QB last year, I’d sure as heck like to have tried. We know for a stone-cold fact that he was a better runner, and (from what we saw in the spring and summer) he has a better arm as well.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
I think his point (and at least MY point) was
that you can’t prove it either way, and our personal opinion is that it would not have made a difference.
Hence his use of the phrase “strongly believe”.
There are no facts, so there is no use in definitive statements.
Your argument could be turned around as well. We can’t prove whether or not we would have been worse with Billy Cosh as QB, but do you really want to try just for the sake of trying?
It seems to me the main difference between these opposing viewpoints is the level of acceptable risk. Your side seems more comfortable with taking risks, and our side seems more comfortable using the tried and true option with less upside but also less downside.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
We have no reference point for Billy Cosh at all.
We DO have reference points for Klein from last year. And playing a QB who was head-and-shoulders a better athlete than Coffman (and he was that, if nothing else) isn’t close to the same thing as playing Billy Freaking Cosh, making that argument completely moot.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
"making that argument completely moot"
Not really. You made an argument that we should have played Klein just to try something different. I was making the point that doing something just to try something different is not always a good option. Your other examples were QBs that would have been without a doubt better options at QB because we have a TON of reference points for them and know they are good. So I went the opposite way and went with someone who had absolutely zero reference points, aside from the fact we hate his dad and he apparently likes to scare small dogs.
If you still think my point is moot then you have to acknowledge your point in regards to Weeden and Jones is moot as well.
Well, I guess you don’t have to, but that would just be hypocritical. These arguments are two sides of the same coin. They have the exact same relevance to the Colin Klein vs. Carson Coffman debate.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a fairly blatant straw man.
I, at no point, claimed that “we should have played Klein just to try something different.” You’re arguing against a position I do not hold. I argue that we should have played Klein instead of Coffman because he displayed the potential that he would be an upgrade over Coffman. You countered with a claim that somehow my reasoning would lead to that we might just as well have played Billy Cosh.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
This is what I took to mean "just try something different"
while I can’t PROVE we’d have won this game or that one with Klein as QB last year, I’d sure as heck like to have tried
That argument about Billy Cosh was a counter to your comparison to Weeden and Jones.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
That was a response to the whole “you can’t prove” argument that came before. Of COURSE I can’t “prove” it, beyond any shred of doubt, but that doesn’t meant there weren’t legitimate, obvious arguments for going that direction, which was my point. I wasn’t wanting it to JUST “try something different”, but because that QB who was “something different” was clearly a much better athlete than Coffman.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
OK
But your references to Weeden and Jones were irrelevant and non-supportive of your point, which was my point.
We had limited reference points for Klein, which gave us limited information.
We have quite a few reference points for Weeden and Jones, which gave us all the information we need to know they would have definitively been better options. They have no relevance as to whether or not Klein would have been a better option.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Those references weren't intended to support MY point,
but to undermine the whole “you can’t prove we’d have won X game with Klein” argument by noting that I also can’t prove we’d have won any given game with those other two QBs. I wasn’t claiming Klein was on their level or anything close to that, just that the argument I was responding to was fallacious.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
I see
And I always try to avoid saying arguments are fallacious, merely because it sounds like fellatio.
Once, when saying that very same thing in an argument, I basically lost just because nobody in the room knew the real word and thought it was some sort of reference to fellatio, and thus laughed at me and moved onto another topic.
I do appreciate arguing with someone who knows more words than what we learn in elementary school.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing that argument occurred in the Star's comment section.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
I love how even a year later
We are still engaged in heated Coffman debates.
He lingers!!!!
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep!
We can’t escape him, no matter how slow and unathletic he is. What does that say about us?!?
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
We're slower and still less athletic?
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
FWIW
I do think that after the Texas game we should have gone all-in with Colin Klein. I also think we would have won the Missouri game if Klein had been the only starter.
But I also see PLENTY of legitimate reasons for not putting the whole offense on his shoulders and do not think that Snyder was having some sort of monumental brain-fart that is an indictment to his game-day coaching.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Aug 29, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
This we can agree on.
But I do think that his not playing Klein over Coffman is an indictment of his often being over-the-top loyal to people who don’t deserve it based upon the results they produce or don’t produce.
Improve every day. (Read it again. It has more meaning than what you first see.)
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