Self happens to land prized recruit, Kevin Young, who had previously signed with San Diego State.
Steve Fisher is less than pleased with the ethics of both the kid and Self--though he's still "very fond of" both. And by "very fond of", he most likely means "thinks that both are unethical a-holes." I, of course, would never question the integrity of such a model program. They would never challenge ethical boundaries in pursuit of a recruit that would have otherwise gone elsewhere.
In related news, I own a piece of property in southern Riley county that I would like to put up for sale. It has some great views of the ocean.
11 months ago
K. Scott Bailey
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Eh...
Recruiting a kid that has only signed a financial aid package and not a letter of intent, (especially after the kid de-commits from the original school) isn’t really unethical. The financial aid package is only binding on the school, and players break it all the time with no consequence. If Young had signed a LOI, then it would be completely different.
While I feel bad for Fisher in that he might have passed on other recruits waiting on Young to sign his LOI, I don’t think Self did anything out of the ordinary or unethical. Maybe unprofessional, in that it’s clear Fisher thought Young would sign with him, but not unethical.
If the choices are between getting a good recruit and maybe making another coach upset, I’d take the recruit every time. Maybe I would feel differently if this had happened to an in-conference coach (excluding Scott Drew, because let’s face it, that guy is a douche), but I look at this as a necessary and inevitable part of college recruiting: It sucks that it happens, but short of a rule preventing it, it’s part of the landscape.
by No Moths on Jun 21, 2011 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
The kid isn't ALLOWED to sign an LOI, which is why the financial aid agreement is used.
And most times, the agreement is treated like a de facto LOI, and most people treat it as such, though Self clearly does not. If he had been able to sign an LOI, he couldn’t have gotten out of it. And, while Self didn’t commit any violations, this just seems like something borne out of desperation from losing out on a couple of other high-profile guys.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 21, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
The recruit reached out to KU
Whose asst coach told him to tell the San Diego State coaches that he planned on visiting KU.
On Monday, Young also further clarified how he ended up visiting KU after previously signing a grant-in aid with San Diego State.
"It happened, like, around the end of May," Young said. "I talked to (KU assistant) coach (Kurtis) Townsend and let him know that I was interested in coming, and then before he went on, he made sure that I talked to coach (Steve) Fisher and (assistant) coach (Brian) Dutcher at San Diego State and made sure they knew that I was planning on taking a visit out here and stuff. And then, I talked to them as well and let them know.
"They weren’t too happy. I don’t know if they really agreed with it, but I just went ahead and came out here."
It's not that I'm lazy; it's that I just don't care. (#739)
I don't believe for one second that Young made first contact.
I know that’s the party line now, but if you read the statements made closely, there’s enough wiggle room that even if the KU assistant contacted him first, the statement isn’t technically a lie. It all just seems very Drew-like to me, which surprises me (though nothing done in college basketball recruiting should really surprise me anymore) coming from Self.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 21, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'd be pissed at Young
but I don’t think KU did anything wrong here.
The kid came to them, expressed interest, and they made sure he was upfront about it to SDSU. I wouldn’t turn him away either, unless some news surfaces about them recruiting the guy in secret unlike they’ve said happened.
That's the thing.
Even if they were actively trying to sway him, they didn’t break the written rules. It’s just considered very iffy ethics to do so. And I don’t believe for a hot minute that the kid just suddenly (after 8 months) went, “Oh, let’s see if KU wants me!”
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 21, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Not going to argue with your pessimism, or more so your reasons behind it. Def has fishyness to it.
But, it could be possible that he was holding out to see what DeAndre Daniels was going to do. The two are very similar in terms of size, although Young seems more of a post player while Daniels was a big three…
Perhaps he saw a chance for immediate PT at KU, and after we missed on a few recruits he jumped in. I don’t know, at least that is what I will tell myself to feel better. I can’t see Self doing something too shady for an under-the-radar type (a lot of KU fans were mad we gave him a scholarship, opposed to waiting to use it for next year). Then again, we need a lot of help in the trees department, so maybe Self got a bit desperate to add a big body late in the game.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 21, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Does Self ever rescind scholarships?
If so, perhaps he looks at this as sort of a one year “tryout” for Young.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 22, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
No, but we've had a ton of transfers
If the playing time isn’t there, seems like he is usually honest with the guy and the guy bolts for another school.
I don’t see it being more of a tryout simply because this guy only has two years of eligibility left. I think we needed immediate help in the post, and he saw a guy who has played some college ball who could come in and help. Similar to when we really needed a wing type after Rush left and we grabbed Mario Little from JUCO.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 22, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought Young was a sophomore.
However, with him being a junior this year, it seems that the only real downside is the hit that Self takes as far as people whispering that he’s not a paragon of ethics, as far as recruiting goes. And with how thin the front line for KU was looking, I doubt he gives a crap if people feel like he did Fisher and SDSU wrong in this process.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 22, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I think thats the most important point
And with how thin the front line for KU was looking, I doubt he gives a crap if people feel like he did Fisher and SDSU wrong in this process.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 22, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
That was my first thought too
But really, the story is believable. Look at Tate Forcier, I imagine there are lots of athletes out there like that who try to shop their name around to anyone they think might take a look. I could also easily see KU approaching him, though.
I highly doubt that KU didn't initiate the contact.
With that in mind it still isn’t unethical. However, it comes down to whether or not one coaching staff cares to stick a knife in the back of another. It’s a matter of morals, which we all know the KU athletic department is lacking (except for Turner Gill, who needs to be a little more of an a-hole).
Just because the KU coaches had the recruit contact Fischer and Co. before the visit doesn’t make it right. They’re just trying to deflect criticism with that move.
It is a scenario that will continue to show that Bill’s ‘aww shucks good ole boy’ front is BS.
by GCat on Jun 21, 2011 11:28 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
At the end of it all
It is still the kid’s choice. Regardless of any perceived ‘unethical’ behavior.
It's not that I'm lazy; it's that I just don't care. (#739)
That it is.
And KU gets to play the bully boy, swooping in to show SDSU just where it stands in the pecking order, while using an impressionable college kid to do so.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 22, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, the guy has a chance to start for us.
I think overall that is the biggest key. I’m not sure what SDSU’s roster situation is, but perhaps they are well-stocked at forward?
Right now, if you had to put money on someone starting in the post for KU next to Robinson, would you take Young or Withey? I’d almost go with Young, mostly because my views of Withey are… well they are probably about as high as yours.
Apart from TRob and Withey, KU’s only post players are two 3 star freshman recruits and a walkon. I think Young liked his chances to play immediately for a good team, and playing time was the biggest factor. Especially after Daniels turned KU down.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 22, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Aside from Kawhi Leonard, SDSU is very thin in the frontcourt.
But yeah, I’m sure that very few kids would refuse to take KU’s phone call, even if they’d signed a financial aid agreement (that basically serves as a LOI for transfers) with another school.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 22, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
The dude's a former 3-star player who transferred from Loyola Marymount. I don't know that I would call him a "prized recruit."
That he instantly becomes at least the second-best post player on their roster is more a sign of how desperate things had become. If I was a Squawk, I’d be a little worried about this season. God help them if Robinson ever gets injured.
Yeah, the numbers he was averaging at Loyola weren't exactly eye-opening
But KU probably just needs him to play good defense and protect Robinson.
Robinson can protect himself.
They need Young to steal as many minutes as possible from Withey because Withey is terrible.
Anderson and Traylor aren’t ready yet for Big 12 basketball. They’re going to get an education in the school of hard knocks this season.
The irony in all this is that one of the biggest cheaters in the sport's history, Steve Fisher, is the one complaing about Self's ethics.
That’s just laughable.
irony
a ku story having lots of comments on botc … guess we have hit the yearly doldrums of college sports.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
by Anon_the_younger on Jun 22, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
College what nows?
Ok, serious question…
Two chair back seats in section 6 or four bench seats in section 6?
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
I thought he was the one who took over when Michigan's cheater was fired.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Jun 22, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Nah Fisher was the coach when they had the Fad 5 and beyond
And we all know how that ended up (Chris Weber is still unavailable for comment). Plus, he was directly linked to the Ed Martin scandal (the Michigan booster). The whole thing lead to Fisher’s firing in 1997, and Michigan vacated wins from four or five seasons I believe.
In the end, we really learned that Fisher never really accomplished much as a coach. He took over as Michigan’s interim coach late in the 1990 season, and Michigan suddenly caught fire and won the NCAA tournament (mostly because Glen Rice was unconscious the entire run). Then Fisher’s next several seasons were pretty much vacated, including his two final 4s with the Fab Five, and that was it.
The whole scandal with Ed Martin, Fisher, Michigan etc is actually a really interesting read. Especially given the recent Ohio State and USC football scandals (a lot of similarities, including automobiles)
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 22, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah but
I thought Fischer was out of the loop when it came to Ed Martin. I mean, the way I understand it is that Fischer had nothing to do with Ed Martin and didn’t know the guy was giving players money. Ohio State and USC on the other hand, new their players were driving brand new cars, and their players parents were living in houses they couldn’t afford. Big difference. I don’t think Fischer is near the cheater that Jim Tressel or Pete Carroll are. If you get a chance to watch the ESPN movie on the Fab 5 I highly recommend it.
Also, I don’t blame Chris Weber for not commenting. The guy literally made millions for both Michigan and the NCAA, but became the scapegoat for both the TO and receiving a couple thousand bucks from a booster so he can make it through college.
That could easily be the case
I just read an article about it that made it sound like Fisher’s whole “I HAD NO IDEA!!!” argument was a bunch of b.s. I guess after all thats happened in college sports over the past decade, I have a hard time believing that coaches are ever innocent or in the dark in regards to scandals as big as this one. I mean, several players, several hundred thousand dollars…
I’m definitely curious though, never heard the other side before. I should read up some more on it, or maybe there is a good book out there on the subject. Main reason I never heard the other side is I grew up in a Wisconsin household and… well, we weren’t too fond of the Maize and Blue
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 22, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
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