Miami can grab Martin, U-turn program if it commits
This article is not exactly a positive development.
Frank could quash all of this speculation pretty quickly. But he's not doing interviews with local media.
This is how the game is played. Let others tell the national media stuff like this while you say all the right things. It practically begs Miami to make an offer.
The only question at this point is whether Frank's just trying to get a raise and/or put pressure on ADJC, or really does want the Miami job.
about 1 year ago
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It's probably worth noting that Gary Parrish was one of the first to call both Mike Anderson to Arkansas and Matt Painter to stay at Purdue.
Even while other national media were busy getting it wrong.
Just saying. I’d love to know who the “walk on coals” source is. I’m guessing it’s Art.
Didn't Art say in the other article that Frank wouldn't come to Miami
because they lack the fan support, etc that he loves at KSU?
Frank’s team is definitely playing this well. And I don’t blame him for that. He’s not going to say “never” when it’s possible Miami could finally offer a huge contract or increase an existing offer that is not being made public at the moment.
Still confident Frank will stay. Not because of Frank being so loyal to KState (although I think he does love it in Manhattan), but because I have no confidence in Miami getting it together to make the commitment and offer necessary.
I actually DO blame Frank for this, if his team is behind this nonsense.
And if Miami throws $3mil/year at him and he takes that POS job, after everything he’s said about loyalty, then I’m done ever believing anything that comes out of the mouth of a college basketball coach.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
The idea that the Miami job, even with a “commitment to the basketball program” and including a large financial incentive would be a better spot for Martin (even with his ties to Miami) than what he’s got here, is asinine. His assistants make more than some head coaches, fan support is constant and consistent, administrative support has been excellent, and there’s the whole issue of that new basketball training facility. If he leaves Manhattan for non-competitive salaries, dismal fan support at all times, competition with pro sports, an administration that looks at basketball as a third-tier sport, and aging/run down facilities, I will be flabbergasted. Also sad.
All we can hope is that he’s just playing for more money…I kind of thought he wasn’t that type of person to begin with (leveraging outside developments to get a pay raise a year after you sign a new contract) , but I understand the incentive to get as much as you can when you can.
From a legal perspective though (and not really having anything to do with him going to Miami), it was shortsighted of the school to give so many clauses in his contract that would allow him to renegotiate. It should have been limited to any of:
1. A top finish in the Big 12
2. Coach of the Year (conference/national)
3. Winning the Big 12 Tourney
4. Performance in the NCAA Tournament (probably Sweet 16 or higher)
Unless Martin comes out in the next day or two and squashes this,
the bloom is definitely off the rose for me, as far as believing all the talk of loyalty and whatnot.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
He'll keep saying what he's been saying.
There’s nothing squash because no one from Miami has called him.
Which probably is technically true. Because Frank Martin is not Richard Katz.
That deceitfulness is what bothers me:
Because Frank Martin is not Richard Katz.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
This also makes it so that I'll never watch the tearful YouTube video the same way again.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you catch Mack Brown's comments a few days ago
about how he actually liked the fact that it’s perfectly okay for a school to talk to a coach’s agent before even requesting permission to talk to the coach, because that way he knows that if they’re requesting permission, the deal’s already done?
My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.
The bloom isn't off until next week for me
but then my patience wears out.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Apr 7, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really a wise course of action in any event:
believing anything that comes out of the mouth of a college basketball coach
I reiterate: a fraternity of liars.
I just thought Frank was different. He seemed more like "real people" as they say.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Other than Bill Snyder, I've never known any coach to be different.
Some of them just have good enough jobs that they can’t work up the food chain any more.
Ding ding ding
right on target with how I feel about the “coaching fraternity”…
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
Cough, cough
I’m done ever believing anything that comes out of the mouth of a college basketball coach.
Heck, I reached that point about 20 years ago. What kept you?
My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.
No kidding
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
The tearful press conference made me think Frank was different.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 8, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember how much Roy cried?
Hell, Sydney Johnson bawled his eyes out when his alma mater, Princeton, reached the NCAA Tournament, and again when they acquitted themselves admirably in a slim defeat by Final Four-bound Kentucky.
Didn’t stop him from bailing to fricking Fairfield less than two weeks later, however.
Honor exists among thieves, not coaches.
I semi called this last night
Parrish said in his article: " All Miami has to do is secure the funds and make the call." Were will Miami get that kind of money?
Did you see my comment in a fanpost last night to the effect that if
Frank leaves, it will be because of back channel money being funneled to Miami?
The whole thing with Missouri hiring Haith was the tip off. No way they hire that clown
unless the big boys wanted to get Frank out of Manhattan. (no, I haven’t eaten
any magic mushrooms in months).
810 in KC said today that permission has been granted for Martin to talk to Miami.
oh hail the Purple and White
Well, 810's full of shit.
No such thing has happened.
Until I hear a credible report (read: an actual journalist) that Frank is even on Miami’s list, I’m going with Katz’s report and simple logic — Miami won’t make the financial commitment necessary to attract Martin because it’s never cared about basketball.
I'm having trouble deciphering F76's post here.
Is he claiming that people from one of our rivals will be funneling money to Miami, so that they can pay Frank, in order to get him out of our conference?
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 8, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea that sounds pretty stupid on Missouri's part if they were going that far lol
Bitchslapping Texas since 1997
No, I just think he's saying Mizzou poached Frank Haith at least partially to rid themselves of Frank Martin.
IMO, it’s a funny joke. It is not even a remotely sound conspiracy theory, however.
Remember, Life is a series of conspiracies
What I’m saying is this:
If Miami “makes the finacial committment to go to get Frank”, then
1. Missouri hiring Haith, who was on the HOT seat at Miami, makes no sense, unless,
2. Some back channel money is going to Miami (and probably Missouri) to get Frank out of Manhattan and to Miami. Frank has enough charisma to sell big in Miami; the big money boys think long term – they want to develop the college b/ball brand in S Florida, and in the Carribbean, Central America, Venezuela, etc. An 8,000 seat fieldhouse is irrellevant compared to the other revenue sources. Frank is the guy to do it. Missouri profits by getting Frank out of the conference; they fire Haith in 2 years, and they won’t whiff on their next big name flirtation.
3. If I have to explain where the “back channel money” would come from, then some may be paying to much attention to 96 field brackets as opposed to who the hell is really pulling the strings in college sports these days.
4. I’m not saying that Frank is leaving. I’m saying if he leaves, there will be back channel money going to Miami in order to get the deal done. Does anyone real want to argue with that proposition?
5. Frank likes the bright lights. He likes attention. He likes to be on tv. If he turns Miami around, he will go down as a coaching legend. Not saying he leaves – but I won’t be surprised if he does.
oh hail the Purple and White
This is the lamest conspiracy theory ever.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 8, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
So do you disagree with the proposition
that most events in life are but a series of conspiracies?
oh hail the Purple and White
Yes.
But especially when the supposed events making up the “conspiracy” make no sense.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 9, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
And #4 is convenient,
since it makes you “right” either way.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 8, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to predict what will happen;
but if Frank does leave you won’t hear me moaning and crying about loyalty and other such non-sense. Based on the fact that, at present, Miami is a piece of sh*t job, there would have to be some other explanation for his leaving than “he just wants to go home.” If he leaves, Miami is going to have to come up with serious money. It does not grow on palm tress, even on South Beach. Hence, where did they get the money — to make the guarantees – to lure Frank away? IF, and I emphasize IF, Frank goes to Miami, Missouri was in on it – I guarantee you. Okay.
oh hail the Purple and White
That's absolutely insane.
You honestly think Missouri would hire a sub-par coach simply to get Frank out of their conference? That’s just beyond the pale. And I’m done discussing such loopiness.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 9, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
So, why did Missouri
hire a sub-par coach? And sub par is being kind.
And, with the following comment you made, to wit: “You honestly think Missouri would hire a sub-par coach simply to get Frank out of their conference?”, I can tell you completely missed the point. No they didn’t do it simply to get Frank out of the conference. $$$$$$ had something to do with it.
If Frank stays, I take complete credit for scaring off the conspirators! :) They were afraid there dastardly deeds were about to be revealed!
oh hail the Purple and White
Come on, man,
loopiness is SUCH FUN!
oh hail the Purple and White
What was the group in Prison Break that ran the country?
Sounds like what you’re describing.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Apparently you understand the conspiracy better than I do.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 8, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if that was the plan, it failed miserably.
Miami never even took a serious look at Frank and now Mizzou is stuck with a mediocre basketball coach. Nice plot, Alden.
Which doesn't contradict this article.
That makes the case for why they need to commit to improvements.
This exhorts them to do so.
This is also my greatest hope in this whole deal.
because I have no confidence in Miami getting it together to make the commitment and offer necessary
You guys are kinda letting me down here
I keep expecting a creative name for this whole thing like “Martin Gate” or “Miami Gate” (but something actually creative)
And then headlines like MARTIN GATE: (insert update here)
C’mon man
Shit happens when you win championships
All right, if this drags on through tomorrow, that's what we'll go with.
I’m 50-50 as to whether it will, though, because I’m hearing rumblings that ADJC and HCFM might be in extension talks, which is why the latter has cut off contact with local media.
Now if THAT is the case, I would completely understand Frank's reticence.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
The reason this hasn't been a big deal right now in terms of "Martin Gate"
is because there is nothing but media speculation. From the reports we’ve been giving, there has been no contact, no offers, etc. From what we know there isn’t a 24-hour camera pointing at a door. There hasn’t been people watching flight records.
So far, this is just the media thinking out loud about possibilities. Parrish’s article is based on the premise that Miami has the money (I’m thinking around an additional $7 million a year with upgrades to salaries and general basketball expenses – not to mention the huge money to upgrade/buildi facilities) and the support to do both. Miami can’t get half their stadium full for a rivalry game? This is NOT a destination job.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
Thought i saw that "walk on coals" quote
right when the Miami job opened somewhere else too. Makes me think it’s not a fresh source. Parrish didn’t really reveal much new stuff, at least to me. You mean he would be interested in going back home if the administration actually started to give a shit about basketball and also pay him and his staff well?? Well no shit.
Close, but not the same.
I recall Gregg Doyel saying something to the effect of “Frank would crawl to Miami.”
Gregg Doyel is a moron.
Almost more douche-y than TDWMNBN.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, i remember that one
But i thought Parrish tweeted something as well. Eh, oh well….i’m too lazy to go back and look.
by WillieWannabe on Apr 7, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
take the coals quote out and
you don’t have much more than speculation. But the coals and crawling could be the same source and same quote. Interesting that Cole Manbeck seems to be getting information too. He tweeted another short article
by ElephantHouse on Apr 7, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't like his quote there at all.
“I am not speaking with anyone (in the media) because there is nothing to speak about,” Martin told The Mercury in a text message. “I have not been contacted by anyone.”
There IS “something to speak about”, Frank. All you have to do is say, “I am not interested in the job as coach of the Miami Hurricanes, and will decline it if it’s offered.”
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Would he say this if there are (or is the possibility) of negotiations with KSU?
Wouldn’t that kill any leverage he has (at least for this year)? If I’m the KSU AD, I want to keep Martin long term at all costs, but I also want to see how this upcoming year goes for free.
Frankly, this is a mess.
He would still have leverage.
He hit the benchmark to be able to negotiate an extension, and if ADJC didn’t give him one after such obvious proof of his loyalty to KSU, then ADJC becomes the bad guy if Frank walks after 2016.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
2016!?!
Really, you think he is playing this game that far ahead?
More money now. That is what he wants (or he does indeed want to leave, winters in Manhattan do suck).
Anyone already questioning his loyalty is going to end up like the fans that left the bball team for dead in January. There is no benefit to being the first one to jump ship.
this last comment was not directed at you Scott, just including it on this post
To be honest, I wouldn't say this if I was in Frank's position
Why put yourself in a situation like that? I’m sure he IS interested in the MIami job if the situation is right, and while I would be disapointed I could not blame him.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Apr 7, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
what I find interesting
is that he’s only talked to 2 radio stations (nationally) and the Mercury. Nothing to the Rivals people, TCJ, KCStar/Eagle (I know why he isn’t talking to them)…
by ElephantHouse on Apr 7, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
TDWMNBN
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Apr 7, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Loyalty used to mean something
but money is all that matters now. Sad. We trusted you Frank
Bitchslapping Texas since 1997
This is ridiculous.
College basketball is a business. Frank Martin has given his all to Kansas State and its fans. If he chooses to leave because he has another opportunity he prefers then who are we to question him for it?
If Frank stays and the team is terrible the next three years, would you say he should be fired? Loyalty is a two-way street.
by yeahboozin on Apr 7, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm with yeahboozin on this one
(And not just because I’m often drunk…)
Emotionally, we want and value “loyalty”. Sure, Frank leaves and we would take a certain joy in watching Miami stay crappy. (Remember that wonderful feeling you had when the Ex ended up ditching the fool who replaced you? Oh, rapture!)
But it’s intellectually a bit silly and lazy to a) assume that if Frank leaves, he was never loyal; b) think that leaving is an immoral or unethical choice; c) claim that K-State and the Wildcats are “loyal” to him, (rather than just valuing a winning coach); or d) try to pretend that you wouldn’t under any circumstances resign your current job to get more money to live where you really, really would rather be living.
a) Frank seems very committed to his players and to the school. But that’s not to say that there aren’t stronger heartstrings that lead elsewhere. Even if he were to leave next week—and I actually don’t think he will, but I know absolutely nothing about anything—that wouldn’t logically negate any sincere emotions he has for Manhattan or his players. In Psychology, it’s called an “approach-approach conflict”. There are two things you may greatly want and value, and you can only have or do one.
b) Loyal? To who or what? K-State is a large, wealthy institution. We fans aren’t any different than fans of any other university or pro team. This is not a personal relationship (though it does feel like that at times to many of us). We don’t have a marriage contract with Frank. If he were to move on, is this different than Seinfeld pulling the plug on his show sooner than you would have wished? And, of course, our “loyalty” to Frank is very, very conditional. Which leads me to…
c) If Frank stays and his next two teams win 17 and 13 games, many of us would be calling for his firing. (Some stray elements were actually doing so during the January swoon. And note that two comments above, we already have someone saying that Frank only cares about money and bemoaning that “we” ever “trusted” him. And this is based on something he hasn’t done and possibly never will do.) And beyond that, if we were truly loyal to Frank Martin the person, we would all continue to cheer him on in Miami and hold a parade if Miami wins the 2013 National Championship. The reality is that he ceases to be “our guy” the moment he leaves, and shortly after the program starts to look like it’s stagnating. Our support of Frank Martin has little to do with “loyalty”.
d) And finally—look, it’s easy to say that principles are all that matter and to castigate those who don’t live up to our lofty expectations. So, none of us complaining would ever walk out on a job when the dream job beckoned? No one ever puts her/his personal needs before those of the institution s/he is tied to? And to go a semi-ludicrous step further, we all would have stood up to the immoral terror of the Nazis because it was the right thing to do, (and sacrificing one’s own well-being in the meantime)? I don’t buy.
I guess if we all differentiate between our raw emotions—and yeah, I’ll be pissed if Frank goes and would end up rooting for Miami to tank while the Wildcats move on to the next level—and claiming some sort of moral high ground, this would be a more honest discussion.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Apr 8, 2011 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you present a false choice
Not all fans would support firing Martin before his contract has expired.
In fact, I did NOT support the firing of Prince when he was fired, thinking at the time that we did not live up to our end of the bargain contract/loyalty wise. After the details emerged of his secret contract, well, I have since amended my position on that, but I for one am greatly upset when institutions fire coaches before their contracts are up. It is a reflection of the “Me! Me! Me! Now! Now! Now!” culture that we have allowed to define our society.
I, for one, do value loyalty, and would not support firing Martin before his contract is up, unless he did something outrageous to deserve a firing (such as murder, embezzlement, etc.).
I understand the hypocrisy of calling him out for lack of loyalty and then demonstrating minimal loyalty in return. I don’t support that position either. But I don’t think that just because “everyone” does it, or because it is “just a business” means that it is OK to be completely selfish and disloyal.
And I wouldn’t actually hate Martin if he were to leave. I would be saddened, and definitely angry, but as time passed I’m sure I would forgive him. After all, he did give us some great years while he was here, and an acrimonious exit should not, in my opinion, tarnish that legacy.
But that’s just me, I can’t speak for everyone.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Apr 8, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Frank would have to put out subpar teams for about 5 straight years,
before I’d even CONSIDER calling for his head.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 8, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I think some people need to cool their jets.
Some were SO adamant that Frank would never even consider the Miami job, that when it starts to leak that there might be some interest…the pendulum swings violently the other way. Frank isn’t doing anything wrong by considering the possibility of switching job.That doesn’t make him any less loyal to KSU then he was 1 month ago. If anything, i’m glad he’s honest and willing to admit that he’ll “never say never” instead of spouting some “i wanna retire here” bullshit to get the press off his ass(it won’t work anyway). This obviously isn’t an easy decision and he has to consider all the options.
by WillieWannabe on Apr 7, 2011 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I was definitely adamant,
because there’s no reason to leave, at least from any rational basketball sense. The programs aren’t close to comparable on a fiscal, record, or tradition sense. If he takes the job,, he will have committed career suicide.
…willing to admit that he’ll "never say never" instead of spouting some "i wanna retire here" bullshit to get the press off his ass(it won’t work anyway).
That’s kind of a false dichotomy, though. All he has to say is, “I’m not interested in the job at the University of Miami, and won’t take it if it’s offered.” Coaches remove themselves from consideration for jobs all the time.
This obviously isn’t an easy decision and he has to consider all the options.
Unless it’s about leveraging the situation for money, it IS an easy decision. I love the little town in southwest Kansas where I grew up. But if I had a job coaching a 5A or 6A school with some good basketball tradition, there’s no way in hell I’d move back there to coach a 1A school—especially if my town’s school had instability in administration, crappy fan support, terrible facilities, and no basketball tradtion.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if you were making the decision, it would be easy.
But Frank is. And you don’t know what his feelings are, where his priorities are at, whether or not he wants to be closer to his son, etc. Every coach/human is different.
by WillieWannabe on Apr 7, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Frank has performed at a level that warrants a higher salary than he’s currently being paid. Why would he not want to improve the position for himself, his family, and his assistants?
That's my only problem with it.
Miami DOESN’T improve his position, or that of his assistants. If Billy Donovan quits tomorrow to coach the Heat, I would have no problem with Frank openly courting that job.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with your feelings on Miami,
but it’s possible Frank sees a lot of potential there or at least enough to make him feel okay with going back “home”.
I guess my point (and I think WW’s) is that this is Frank’s choice. Kansas State fans might find it offensive, but in the end it doesn’t matter. Frank Martin doesn’t owe KSU. If he’d left after the Beasley year it would have been horrible. But he’s given this school and program plenty for four years and if now is when he should leave then I think he’s been nothing but a positive for Kansas State.
I hope he sticks around for a long, long time and think he very well may. But I don’t think we have much of a complaint if he chooses to go elsewhere.
Well put
Great response, ‘boozin. Loyalty is a two-way street and if Frank stays and KSU slumps the next few seasons will people be saying "Why didn’t he leave?" I don’t know, but maybe the question has to be asked before we jump to conclusions on all this. For Frank Martin, Miami is home. It is understandable that he would want to return to his roots – which happen to be in a tourist-y city on the beach in south Florida. All factors that work against K-State. Nothing we can do about climate and location and local culture. All K-State can do is show him and the program the love and support it has – and that is underlined by ground being broken on the new basketball facility. While I would be disappointed for sure, I wouldn’t blame Frank Martin for leaving if the pull of home, a generous salary and outlined support towards the basketball program is forthcoming from the UM administration. But I do agree with K.Scott that it would make more sense for him to leap at the Florida job if it opened up to him than the Miami one. Two very different scales.
4 things to consider when an opportunity presents itself:
- Is it better for me professionally
- Is it better for my family
- Is it better for me personally
- Is the income better
More pro’s than con’s, then you should take the opportunity
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Apr 7, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
What about a
2-2 tie? :-)
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
The "family" option counts as 1.5 - at least to me.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Apr 8, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know what to say.
If this happens, it will sadden me beyond words. There is a knot forming in my stomach.
I’m sure I’ll be angry at Martin if he leaves. It will hurt. But I will still thank him for what he has done while he was here.
For now I’m just going to keep hoping that all that loyalty talk was more than just that.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Apr 7, 2011 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
I’m just going to keep hoping that all that loyalty talk was more than just that.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, if he leaves,
it doesn’t mean that the “loyalty talk” wasn’t just talk.
Personally, I have no doubts that Frank feels great loyalty toward his school and his player. If something comes up that just means so much more to him—and it’s likely a rare opportunity—then he has a tough decision to make.
I like my school pretty well. I love my students. But if I decide that I want to live back in the States again or need more money with a child on the way…I go. But I still consider myself very loyal to my students.
I think the contradiction that many see is an emotional reaction and not one based on reason.
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Apr 8, 2011 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
More Cole Manbeck info
from his twitter:
Dislike using anonymous sources, but just got off the phone with source regarding Frank Martin situation. Here’s what was said
“If they gave him $1.5-$2 million per year and guaranteed 12K fans per game I think (Martin) Martin would listen. BUT the arena only (cont)
“sits 8,000 fans and they won’t pay that kind of money. They’re still paying Randy Shannon from last year when he got fired (cont)
“I don’t see it happening.”
I’m still nervous, but at least we have conflicting sources instead of just one perspective…
Looks like it might be time for me to file Gary Parrish in with the other cbssports guys I tend to ignore.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Hard to know now-a-days
breaking the news first takes precident over being accurate…or even truthful. Media is now simply a profit center – it is no longer a public service…it wasn’t even given a proper burial – it was just left cold and lifeless in the gutter.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Apr 7, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
There is more at play
here than what is obvious on the surface. Again, this can be deduced if one accepts this simple fact: No way in hell did it make sense for Missouri to “lure” Haith away from Miami. There is a dead rat in the woodpile. It aint gonna be pretty.
oh hail the Purple and White
P.S.
No university official in this country makes any hiring decision with an eye toward weakening a rival. I’m pretty sure they would all laugh at the suggestion that they even have the time to consider that among the 1,000 other things on their mind at the time.
The Only Guy
Who wasn’t replaceable had JC as his initials (and I don’t mean John Currie). Frank will be Frank and I appreciate what he’s saying the way he’s saying it. Give in to angst if you must, but we are in a much better place right now to attract a quality coach than we have been since the retirement of Jack Hartman. Although Jack consistently had us competing for a Big 8 title and made some good runs in the dance, KSU still dipped down a bit to bring Kruger in. That was almost an “in-house” hire since they knew what they were getting at least in respect to “who” and “what” he was. He was still somewhat unproven as a big time coach. At that point in our history, we were still hamstrung by an administration that didn’t care if KSU played in the big time athletically.
We can, now, have quality proven coaches competing to come here. We couldn’t say that before Huggins came back, then left, and Frank took over. I hope Frank doesn’t leave or even bothers to listen, but I refuse to get a knot my stomach over any of this.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
No need to panic and KSU is a much better job now than it was before Frank,
but if this coaching carousel has shown one thing, it’s that it’s not so easy to get a good coach to leave his current situation. NCSU and Mizzou learned that the hard way. It’s also a great reason to be confident in Frank staying.
If and when we lose Frank, I want to see us hire a top assistant coach for the position.
If Mark Fox really is unwilling to take KSU’s calls, then I think we should go the route of hiring someone like Matthew Graves of Butler. He’s still young (35, I think), and he’s part of the Villa 7 group that seems to continue churning out good head coaches from the assistant coaching ranks. Also, working for Brad Stevens for years can’t hurt.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Steve Henson, KSU class of 1990
oh hail the Purple and White
JC?
I think it’s George Castanza with a “G”. But perhaps you were watching the show on Telemundo and he was “Jorge”?
In that case, agreed. That character was absolutely vital to the show…
My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)
by MrHappyMushroom on Apr 8, 2011 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Andy Katz reports...
As of Thursday morning, Miami had not contacted Kansas State and Miami native Frank Martin. And according to a source, Martin should not expect a call. Through an intermediary, a search firm let Martin know that Miami was going in a different direction.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog//name/katzandy/id/6303916/nba-draft-decisions-ahead
Well this is good news.
Wonder if Frank will be giving Andy the time of day moving forward. Probably screws up his negotiating with KSU…
Much better news than Rob's latest premium story on GPC.
Neither Art Alvarez nor Shakey Rodriguez explicitly ruled out Frank listening to Miami.
Mostly what they said is that Miami sucks, but there’s always an outside chance the ’Canes get their shit together and make a decent offer.
Of course, it's now sounding like maybe Miami heard FM's requirements and decided it was preferable to continue losing in basketball.
by BracketCat on Apr 7, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol +1
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
People are making it sound easy to build a good basketball program - especially if you throw money at it.
When you’re consistantly under .500 in conference play, a light switch just won’t go on and you’ll be a better program. I just don’t think it’s in the Cane’s DNA to get their shit together. They have to build a better program to bring a guy like Frank back home.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
by mystman995 on Apr 7, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bang on, my man
As has been pointed out numerous times on multiple threads, basketball doesn’t register at The U. Its football and then baseball and then everything else. Throwing money at it won’t automatically make it better. What if Frank is offered a generous salary with equally generous salaries for his assistants, plus all kinds of other sweeteners and he goes there, wins, and fans STILL don’t show up? I imagine that thought has crossed his mind a time or two.
It's even worse than that ...
WINNING won’t even automatically make it better. And that’s AFTER you’ve thrown money at it.
Frank could win like crazy at Miami and south Florida will not give a shit.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Apr 8, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
That's kind of rich, actually.
I mean, “going in a different direction”?!? I think they mean, “going in a cheaper and far less-talented direction.” Not that I’m complaining, though.
Innovators look at the same thing as everyone else, yet see something different.
by K. Scott Bailey on Apr 7, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
We need a Slate
I have no where to post this other then here——-
Jeff Goodman -- “Kansas’ Marcus and Markieff Morris both gone. Just got a release both have signed with agent Tony Dutt.”
"To all the fake fans that just jump on and off the bandwagon who think we suck go cheer for somebody down the road then" -JP
Random thoughts
I think MIA needs to make the call to Frank and if Frank wants to go home then he needs to take the call. Miami should ask Frank what it would take from every angle to get him there. Frank then rolls out everything they are lacking that he wants. They say sorry we cant do all that right now and thank you for taking the call. They hire some decent ast coach that really never has a true shot at winning. But during these next three years with said coach they slowly build up everything on Franks list. In three years when the job opens back up again because coach without a shot gets fired they will have Franks list complete and only have to worry about money. At which point Frank goes home!!
IMO- Miami is a job that will be open again in 3 years so why not get the wishlist and start working on it one item at a time….
"To all the fake fans that just jump on and off the bandwagon who think we suck go cheer for somebody down the road then" -JP
amused
Basically what I’m reading is lots of speculation and angst.
I have no idea how HCFM thinks or feels other than what he provides via various outlets.
Just because one of us thinks/feels that KSU is a good job doesn’t mean that it is a good job in all circumstances for HCFM.
If HCFM gets a better offer, or one that he (and family) perceives is a better offer then I hope he takes it or requires K-State to match it.
I would prefer HCFM to stick around and continue to build K-State basketball back to the point it was in the legendary Tex Winter days. But if he leaves, then I think Brad Underwood would be an acceptable replacement that can continue the journey.
Anyway, I’m amused that nothing is really known other than speculation at this point.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
by Anon_the_younger on Apr 8, 2011 10:35 AM CDT reply actions
90 % sure Martin will stay
People keep telling me that there are rumors about Frank Martin leaving Kansas State for Miami, but so far all the speculation seems to be based on is 1) a job opening at Miami and 2) the recent development that Mike Anderson left Missouri for his heartthrob of Arkansas.
To me – and I say this as a member of the sports media – this is just people talking about hypothetical scenarios. As for Frank not addressing the media about it … well, I could be wrong, but I think part of that is just him being a bit annoyed that people are making such a big deal of this when there is nothing to give it any credence.
When I was first told, “Did you hear Frank might be leaving for Miami?” I asked if there were actually any articles by legitimate newspapers to back it up. So far, I haven’t found any. That’s why I haven’t written anything about – no column for the paper, nothing on my blog. As of now, it just seems like a lot of talk.
exactly
I think everyone likes HCFM so the idea of him leaving is what is driving the conversation.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
by Anon_the_younger on Apr 10, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
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