Cats Take Down No. 20 Missouri, 80-70
Jacob Pullen scored 24 points, hitting a career milestone in the process, and Kansas State pulled away in the final minutes to beat No. 20 Missouri 80-70 on Saturday before a sold-out crowd at Bramlage Coliseum.
Curtis Kelly added 15 points and six rebounds for the resurgent Wildcats (20-9, 8-6), who have won six of seven and are battling Missouri (22-7, 8-6) for the fourth and final bye in the Big 12 Tournament.
about 1 year ago
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I have one major concern
Southwell played 17 min and didnt shoot a single shot.
"To all the fake fans that just jump on and off the bandwagon who think we suck go cheer for somebody down the road then" -JP
He's not a shooter right now.
His role is to play great defense and control the offense well. So far in more games than not he’s done a good job doing exactly that.
Be that as it may, I don't like playing 4-on-5 on offense.
Remember how big a liability Dogus Balbay is for Texas? Well, Southwell isn’t even that good defensively.
I can't really remember the last time
I felt soothed when seeing Texas as the opponent or cheering against them and thinking to myself “I’m sure glad Balbay is on their team because now we don’t have to guard him” – you still have to guard him so any 4-on-5 talk is simply non-sense, in my opinion. If he passes and shows the defense more consistently that has been displayed in his last couple home games, I have no qualms with his offense as I expect it to only improve from here. :-)
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
Don't get me wrong, I like Shane.
I’m not sure there’s anyone I would rather see in that spot. Not Russell, until he shows consistent effort on both ends of the court. Maybe Marty — he’s a scrappy defender and rebounder who can contribute a bit offensively, but he’s not as good of a passer. Maybe Nino if he hadn’t gotten sidelined with concussion(s?); I didn’t get to see enough of him to say for sure. And Canada and Peterson fill different roles.
But I want to see Shane develop his offensive game. I’m sure he has it in him. Get him in the gym all summer with Rodney, and let’s see what develops.
This worries me not.
Maybe I’m being naive but I feel like a freshman with the athletic ability and defensive focus/effort/hustle of Southwell could be taught to shoot – repetition and gym work, right? (correct me if that is wrong) Also, some of his recent games’ assist numbers please me just fine. Not making concrete comparisons here, but I don’t think any Cetlics fans are concerned because Rondo cannot hit anything outside of 10’ (NOTE: certainly not saying Southwell is the next Rondo or anything, just that a player CAN provide major value – and not concern – without having to be able to make the outside shot…) Also, we’re winning quite a bit more since Southwell has been starting: go figure, eh?
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
But Rondo CAN hit the 14 foot jumper,
he just doesn’t take it very often. When (and I believe he will learn to hit it) he learns to take the quick 14 foot jumper, his game, and the team’s game, could go off the charts. Michael Jordon was unstoppable because he could pop the quick shot – thus opening up more drives to the hoop, or dish offs to teammates. IMO, a 6’6’ guard who has the quick jumper would be a weapon that would just destroy other teams. And I think Shane has the shot, he just hasn’t developed the confidence yet to take it. It will come.
oh hail the Purple and White
I agree completely.
AMS has a point – it’s never ideal to have a guy on offense who the defense can sluff off against, but Shane does a lot of good things out there and we’ve played better since he’s been starting. I really like how Frank used him yesterday and wonder if he’ll do that more moving forward. Hopefully Jake won’t get into that kind of foul trouble often, but he basically subbed Shane in as a defensive guard and then took him out for offense. Next season with Shane, Martavious, Rod, Jamar, and JHR we should have the potential to play superb defense.
I’ve also thought of Rondo when watching Southwell. I don’t expect Shane to become a top 5 PG in the NBA, but he has great court vision and good handle. But Rondo has never developed a good jumpshot – some guys just aren’t good shooters and practice can only get them to being ok. I’d be fine with Shane getting to ok. He can be a slasher and great assist and defense guy. And as far as Balbay comparisons – he’s been pretty damn good this season. Wouldn’t mind having him on our squad.
I am concerned if this keeps up
If this keeps happening then teams will start overplaying the passing lanes instead of staying right on Shane. What was the #1 problem with Sutton?! Didnt shoot the ball. Yes he scored but that was getting rebounds and Shane isnt piling those up. Acorrding to espn.com they say he has only shot 47 times all year. He hasnt played in 4 games. And of those 47 times he has made 15. Please dont get me wrong here, I love what Shane is bringing to the team and every game but I just want him to shoot a few times. Maybe he gets the ball on the wing and dribbles in a few steps and then shoots the jumper.
Also on Rondo and Balbay- They will drive the ball in for a layup and foul. They shoot/drive the ball which Shane isnt doing!
"To all the fake fans that just jump on and off the bandwagon who think we suck go cheer for somebody down the road then" -JP
Good Point
I instantly thought of Sutton when we started talking about good defensive players without a lot of offense. I do remember the game last year when Sutton went of for 20+ points against Nebraska (I think it was the Nubs, but I know it happened regardless) and I thought to myself why doesn’t he provide this type of scoring threat more often? It also seemed to me that after that game, Sutton started shooting more often, but sadly the shots weren’t falling like they did in that one contest. In other words, a big game gave Sutton a false sense of confidence that he could be a outside/jump shot shooter when in reality his best option was putbacks on the glass.
I don’t want the same thing to happen to Shane or anyone else on the team. Realizing and understanding your role is a critical part of become a consistent and successful basketball team. Since the team is playing really well right now, asking players to do things differently might mess things up for the rest of the season. If Frank wants to develop Shane into a jump shot threat, that transition needs to happen next season. Give him some opportunities in non-conference play against some JUCO college or w/e, and hopefully with enough game practice he can provide that threat more frequently during conference play.
I suppose Southwell-to-Dom
comparisons might be one of the better choices if you had to make a comparison, but I would take this year’s freshman-Southwell over any Dom Sutton season – in a heartbeat. Perhaps similar in terms of defense being the stronger asset over offense but Dom couldn’t dribble his way down my driveway. Dom was a bigger rebounder and Shane is much better at distributing the ball.
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
Southwell had 2 rebounds, 4 assists, and only 2 turnovers, in 17 minutes.
I’ll take that line (particularly when the zero points come on zero shots) every day of the week from a freshman starter who really plays more of a sixth man role. Will plays the starter minutes off the bench.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
Don't look now but the Beefaloes are breathing down the Cats' neck
7-7 in conference, just a game back, with @ ISU and home against NU to end the conference season. Go Clones! Need to keep them away from a #4 seed please.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - General George S. Patton
Conference tourney seeding doesn't matter that much to me.
In fact, if we end up dropping to the 5- or 6-seed at 9-7, behind CU and (maybe) Mizzou, what does it matter, really? We’ll get an extra game against ISU/Oklahoma/Texas Tech, and then have to beat Mizzou/CU/A&M in the quarters.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I rather like the Cats current streak of top 4 conference finishes, and I really don't like CU
That being said, I would like for the Cats to get a third crack at CU if possible.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - General George S. Patton
There's really not much meaning to a "streak" of top 4 finishes, is there?
The brass ring is the brass ring, and everything else is everything else. Now, if we fall out of the top half of the conference, THAT’S concerning, but I don’t put a ton of stock in top 4 finishes.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
It does show consistency in how the team has been able to do in conference
Only KU is riding a better run right now.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - General George S. Patton
Well, It matters to me
because I want to win the darn tourney, and having to win 4 games in four nights is almost impossible. If we get the 4 seed, we’ll be in the big dance. I don’t give a crap about the seed in THATexibition.
oh hail the Purple and White
To me,
winning the Big 12 tourney is not nearly so important as winning the actual conference. Sure, I’d like to see us win the tournament, but how is the league tournament any less of an exhibition than the NCAAs?
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
I want a CHAMPIONSHIP
I think this team, if it continues its recent play, could win the B/12 Tourney as a four seed, but not as a five. I believe the long term benefit to our program – these freshmen, sophs and Jamar – would be served better by learning to win something, and gaining the confidence of actually cutting down some nets and hoisting a Trophy. Of course, the regular season title is out of reach. The Big12 Tourney title isn’t. I’d rather get the B12 tourney than get to the elite eight. That’s just me. Of course, if we are good enough to win the B/12 Tourney, we should be good enough to get to elite 8. I contend this focus on NCAA “bracetology” is a distraction to some of the kids playing college b/ball today; their heads aren’t in the right place.
oh hail the Purple and White
I always see it as the
regular season being a display of grinding it out night-in and night-out, dealing with distractions, and taking in stride each happening. The post-season tournaments – especially conference – are so bang-bang-bang-it’s-over-now that I see it as more of a measure of a team’s ability to blitz the opposition. Just hit 3 or 4 teams bing-bing-bing with your best shot and you stand at the top. Regular season losing one game is not a real big deal. To me the two show different aspects of a team and honestly the best teams win BOTH. :-)
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
I do believe I've figured out the cause of Mizzou's "road woes."
In all seriousness, I think the beginning and end of these “woes” is that in Columbia, they get away with a lot more of the aggravated assaults that they call “defense.” However, when they’re forced to play on the road, a few more of those assaults are actually whistled as fouls. I’m researching this hypothesis right now.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 12:43 PM CST reply actions
In the 4 games they've split home and away, it's pretty obvious.
At Colorado (13 point loss), they were called for 4 more fouls than CU. When they played CU in Columbia (16 point win), they were called for 5 LESS fouls than CU.
At K-State (10 point loss), they were called for 5 more fouls than KSU. When they played KSU in Columbia (16 point win), they were called for 6 LESS fouls fouls than KSU.
Iowa State lost both times, and KU and the Nubs have yet to complete their home-and-aways with Mizzou.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
During the game yesterday, they showed a stat points scored vs points allowed for MU home and away. Points scored were down like 5 or so in away games, but points allowed were up more like 15. My immediate thought was that the refs weren’t allowing them to mug players in those road games, leading to a lot more points.
And that is EXACTLY the case.
But don’t mention that to a Mizzou fan—they’ll try to convince you that there’s no — NO! — explanation for their problems on the road, and that they’re just getting the shaft every time out on the road.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Not to shoot you down
but upon reading these couple posts and having scoured through the game thread (after the fact) yesterday it immediately came to mind that a losing team having more fouls called on them could frequently be explained as simply as fouling to get extra possessions/extend the game in the latter stages. What do those home-away, win-loss breakdowns look like if you attempt to determine when the game turned into catch-up mode? Certainly that is no small task nor easy nor very feasible (would be a game flow scouring exercise)… but probably more valuable than ignoring that a team behind fouls to get extra possessions…
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
I don't think it's enough to make up for 10 foul swings, though.
I mean, Mizzou committed MAYBE 2 or 3 fouls yesterday when they were in “catch up” mode.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Feb 27, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
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