K-State v. West Virginia - 85-80, 2OT (L) - Post-Game
by TheBigE on Dec 9, 2011 12:18 AM CST
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That really just wasn't all that fun.
K-State travel to the brand new Intrust arena in Wichita for a "home" game against the Mountaineers of West Virginia in the inaugural Wildcat Classic.
Of course, the obvious storyline is the Bob "Huggy Bear" Huggins versus the pupil Frank Martin matchup, but let's be honest. These two teams were going to be so alike you had to have the different colored jerseys to figure out who was who. Hard work, preparation, effort, and physicality are trademarks of our beloved Wildcats under HCFM - but just where do you think he got that from?
We were "treated" to a game that was back-and-forth all night, with neither team stretching a lead out by much more than 5 or 6 points - mainly due to whistles or sloppy play. We were "lucky" enough to see a very physical, bruising interior game officiated by guys that make random password generators seem consistent. And, we were "privileged" to see those same zebras call the numbers of players 55 times. Yes, 55 fouls. Both teams were in the double-bonus (10+ team fouls) with 10:30 left in the second half.
And not only were we "blessed" to witness all that, we got to watch it for 5 additional minutes. Then 5 more additional minutes. Finally, at the end of the day, both teams played like crap, the refs officiated like crap, and we're no further along than we were before the game. Except WVU has the win, and K-State took the loss.
Unfortunately, we've got some reflecting to do after this one. In my opinion, we were not clearly the better team, but we were good enough to win. And, being up 6 late in the second half, frankly - we should have. But a bad call and some ill-timed offensive struggles killed any momentum we had, and WVU crawled back to even the game up at the end of regulation. Its not that we fell apart - it just didn't happen for us. This game was dead even right up to the late missed 3 by Rod with 10 seconds left in the 2nd OT. Had a decent look - as good as you're going to get being down 3 on a sideline play - but just didn't fall.
WVU has three good players, and they all played well. Kevin Jones is a straight-up player. Came in averaging just shy of 20 PTS / 12 REB. The kid can make fluid post moves in any direction, rebounds very well, and can stretch jumpers out to beyond the arc (which he made at least two - one being no bigger than the game tying shot at the end of regulation). Jones did nothing more than hold up his end of the bargain regardless of the defender, going for 30 points and 12 rebounds tonight, playing 49 of 50 minutes. "Truck" Darryl Bryant is WVU's strong scoring guard, not shooting the ball particularly well, but able to get the ball to the bucket, and plays very solid pressure D out front. He went for 24 points, playing all 50 minutes. Finally, Deniz Kilicli - with Moses' burning bush on his face - is good for 10 and 7 pretty much every time out. Dude has an awkward shot, the "ground hook" - a sky hook he launches from shoulder level. He did his darnedest to give us chances with several late-game TOs, but still had his 12 PTS / 7 REB tonight.
Just have that strange unsatisfied feeling about the game. We didn't play well, we didn't play poorly. I'm not thrilled with anything we accomplished, I'm not disappointed in any particular facet. We just went out there, banged around with the other team, the refs did their best to screw the game up, and we all went home afterward.
And Huggy Bear gets the win.
Good things to take away:
- Offensive Rebounding. We actually did a good job getting after the offensive glass, pulling down 14 boards on that end. But, then again, it's not hard to do when you're missing bunny after bunny like we were at times.
- Defense. Our on-ball defense of guards was exceptional at times tonight, forcing multiple 5-second calls throughout the game. We also did a good job denying the passing lanes, coming up with 10 steals. Finally, for the most part, we were able to provide secondary help on penetration and interior moves and garner 6 blocked shots.
- Intensity. This was the first time that I felt like we held the same relative intensity and effort through the entire game, so in my eyes, that was an improvement. It was just an ugly game with no flow, so it was tough to decipher.
Things to improve on:
- Taking care of the ball. 18 TOs - matching the number of TOs by WVU - but a vast majority of ours seemed mildly forced at best. Instances of throwing passes directly into defenders' hands.
- Finishing at the rim / Offensive Execution. Of course, execution is once again our Achilles' heel. This game would have been relatively in-hand had we made some layups. Missed layups, clanked bunnies, and just substandard post moves created a ton of missed opportunities to score.
- Awareness. JO should not - I repeat - NOT be taking a steal coast-to-coast. Will Spradling should not - I repeat - NOT be forced to take Kevin Jones on defensively 5 feet from the bucket. Under no circumstance should we be leaving someone wide-the-**** open on the three-point line with 20 seconds left in 2OT. Just lost it on a handful of plays that, while one-at-a-time doesn't seem that influential, they become backbreaking as they stack up.
Player Analysis: Starters:
- Rodney McGruder: B+. Finally scored the ball, going for a season-high 20 points, including making some dang threes, finally. Stuffed the stat sheet, coming up with 3 REBs, 2 AST, 1 BLK, 1 STL, 2 TO, 3 fouls, while playing 42 minutes. Came up with at least one 5-second call on D, and did a good job sticking his nose in the paint on help-side. Only thing keeping him from an A is missing both FTs attempted, and forcing a shot to try to draw the foul at the end of the first OT. Honestly, probably his best game so far this year, but I want more.
- Martavious Irving: B+. 6pts/5 AST in 34 minutes, again drawing the toughest on-ball D assignment. Kept his hands to himself better this game (2 fouls), and only committed 1 TO. 2-5 FTs and a "how did you just miss that" missed layup early in the game will keep you out of the A category. 2 points is 2 points, and we could have used those 2 points.
- Will Spradling: A-. Got after it on D, especially late in the game, with on-ball pressure. Forced several poke-outs to make WVU go run the ball down in the backcourt. Scored a season-high 16 points on 4-8 from 3PT, also managed to snag 4 REBs, in 39 minutes. Fouled out during the overtime periods, which took a legitimate shooting threat off the court when we really needed it.
- Thomas Gipson: D early, A late; overall, a B. Was getting his ass handed to him early in the game. Figured some things out - what he could and couldn't do against their big men - and finished the game with a double-double, 15 PTS/10 REBs in 28 minutes. Shot 7-8 FTs. Committed 3 TOs and 4 fouls. Really salvaged what was shaping up to be his worst performances with one of his better statistical performances. Dude needs to work on some defense though - he's a legitimate liability at times, being either out of position or slow to the spot.
- Jamar Samuels: C-. For all the supposed weight and strength he put on over the summer, the guy was getting pushed around a lot. Saddled with some foul trouble throughout the game, he managed to log 20 minutes before fouling out on a complete BS charging call that essentially killed any momentum we had with the lead late in regulation. 8 PTS / 3 REBs is a pretty absent performance, even considering the foul trouble. This is exactly the type of game he needs to get up for, get amped for, and show up to. Which he didn't.
Bench:
- Jordan Henriquez: D-. Like I said, I won't fail anyone as long as they show up. Save for one play early, one play late, and a handful of blocked shots, JO was apparently still in Manhattan. 3 PTS / 3 REBs with 3 BLK in 21 minutes. Pulled what could be the Dumbest Play of the Year in his attempted steal then coast-to-coast layup. Looked just downright flailing and uncoordinated, and of course, another missed layup. Put himself in bad positions, played pretty poor straight-up D, took at least one other bad shot, 4 fouls, including one 30 feet from the bucket late in regulation...just not a good day for the seven footer. His saving grace was honestly the big offensive rebound late in the game.
- Shane Southwell: C. The Southwell Paradox strikes again, only I think there was more bad than good tonight. Some pretty lost and poor decisions mixed in with his usual stat stuffing (3 PTS, 5 REBs, 3 AST, 1 BLK, 3 TOs, 4 fouls) in 32 minutes. In fact, he only posted 2 FG attempted. Just wasn't very assertive on offense, and his TOs came at really bad times, and were really inexcusable, throwing passes that never had a chance.
- Angel Rodriguez: B-. By now, we all know we're getting pressure D, shooting the passing lanes, steals, and homerun passes from Angel. Kid went 2-9 (0-4 3PT) from the floor - they were all good shots, just not with him shooting them. Look, I believe the kid can shoot. We saw it in the exhibition game. But he's made ONE 3PT FG since the exhibition game. He took shots that I'm happy with Rod, Will, Tay, or even Shane taking. Just not Angel. Not right now. It's kind of a catch-22: I don't want him shooting because he's not making, but he won't make unless he shoots. Crap. I just talked myself into letting him shoot those shots. Was also a stat stuffer tonight (7 PTS, 4 REB, 3 AST, 2 STL) in 21 minutes. The stat I had to double-take on: 0 TOs. Had some really nice over-the-top passes to Rod, JamSam, and Gip leading to easy buckets.
- Adrian Diaz: C. Adrian really looked ready to go tonight, and got his chance with foul trouble creeping into the frontcourt. 13 minutes of play, making his only FG attempt for 2 points, 3 REB, 1 AST, 1 BLK, 3 TOs and 2 fouls. Diaz honestly looked like a servicable bench player for 10 minutes a game, if we have to go deeper than Jam/Gip/JO. Same gripe on D as with Gip - just not ready to straight-up D a real post presence.
No one else logged substantial enough time of note.
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This was probably the best I have seen us play in the first half of a game so far
And the worst we have played in the second (almost certainly would have been better if the official weren’t stopping play for a sneeze to be fair tho) it really would have been nice to carry an undefeated record into Sprint Center next weekend but we lost to a good West Vriginia team last night so nothing to dwell on. I do feel that last night proved that Spradling can’t carry us when Gip and Jamar are having bad games. Oh…and making our free throws is really important. Both teams shot like crapp at the line and if we had done better in that area it would have been enough to win.
by Kohawk84 on Dec 9, 2011 6:51 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Agreed entirely.
Was probably the best effort in a first half so far for us.
To beat other respectable teams, we’re going to need three players at a minimum to show up. I would argue that Rod and Will showed up, and Gip eventually joined, but Gip did a lot of his damage late, after Will was shut down (or fouled out). Jamar was essentially a no-show, and JO didn’t even get on the bus back in Manhattan.
Don’t get me started on FTs. They’re just. not. that. hard. To shoot under 70% as a team is absolutely inexcusable. I can find a rebuttal for every single possible excuse that can be conjured up.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
The team played really hard almost all game.
But so did WVU. Last night’s game was played with the kind of intensity usually reserved for March basketball. If we can continue to play this hard throughout the season, we’ll get some games where breaks go our way, unlike this game.
I think they played really hard all game, not just almost.
It was 50 minutes of hard, bull-headed, ornery basketball. Freaking ugly, but everyone was playing as hard as they could. Definitely a March-type game – had the feeling of “win or go home”, though it was nothing of the sort.
I honestly think we lost that game because of literally no more than a handful of plays late in the game – some good plays by WVU, some flubs by us, which is unfortunate.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
I agree with this:
I honestly think we lost that game because of literally no more than a handful of plays late in the game – some good plays by WVU, some flubs by us, which is unfortunate.
After struggling from the field all night, WVU got really hot at the end and couldn’t seem to miss (that falling-down, back-to-the-basket, left-handed flip-over-the-shoulder-off-the-glass by that dude, I mean, come on).
On the other hand, we had a bunch of great looks that were just in-and-out (Will, Angel, Rod all missed open jumpers at the end that could have been daggers). I agree with you on your assessment of Angel; the shots aren’t falling and you’d like someone else to take them, but the only way to break out of a shooting slump is to shoot.
This one hurt, but I really think it’s one of those losses that a young team can learn from, and improve because of.
I say almost, because we didn't force any jump balls
And we didn’t control the so-called 50/50 balls.
As much as I want to, I can't shake this feeling:
JO is quickly becoming my least favorite player. This is saying something, because I have been a JO fan since he got here as a freshman and I really thought he was going to have a break-out year. Unfortunately, that isn’t happening.
Trust me, I don’t want to say the things I’m about to say, but I need to vent. So here it goes:
The guy is just so physically weak. He continuously gets the ball stripped or fumbles away easy rebounds. He leaves his feet on every pump fake. He bit hard on the jab-step by Jones at the end of regulation that allowed Jones enough space to hit the 3 (though, to be fair, Frank put JO in a tough spot there…. still, you give the guy the lane to the basket if that’s what he wants when you’re up 3 with 10-15 seconds to play).
It’s getting to the point where I get scared every time he touches the ball or is playing on-ball defense, and the part that frustrates me is I don’t want to feel that way about JO. I really like the guy!
He just hasn’t had a good start to his year. Here’s to hoping he can shake of the dust get going again.
There’s a lot of games left.
Can I talk you out of the tree?
That was clearly the worst game that JO has played this year. Clearly. I’ve been saying all night/morning that JO looked like he didn’t even get on the bus back in Manhattan. Glad you got a chance to vent. That being said…
He’s a seven footer. Frankly, he’s pretty damn athletic for a seven footer. As with anything, there’s some tradeoffs. As height goes up, coordination goes down. If you’re lucky enough to have both, you’re named Alcindor, or Ewing, or Russell. JO’s not in that category.
His contribution against VaTech is exactly what I want, and what we need, out of him. He can hang on to the ball, he just has stretches where he doesn’t. He’s a shot blocker – he’s going to go after the ball. And that’s OK, because it changes shots even if he doesn’t get to it. The problem surfaces when we have two other guys going after the block too.
I would say out of five games, he’s had two serviceable, one good, one “meh”, and one terrible. Just about like everyone else outside of Gip.
Specifically, that three by Jones was just a good shot. JO made him shoot the ball high with a hand in his face. I don’t think you can ask for any more than that. Personally, the only way we D that better is do a better job denying Jones the ball and force someone else to shoot it, even if they’re a better outside shooter. Kevin Jones is a player – he’s absolutely the guy I want shooting that ball if I’m Huggins.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
Alright, now that you've talked a little sense in to me...
I feel a bit better. I guess I just want more consistency, and that goes for the whole team, not just JO.
As far as the Jones shot at the end of regulation goes, quite honestly I’m not even sure why JO was in the game. Frank himself said he should have had Southwell in rather than JO, but I guess hindsights 20/20.
Good write up.
Wanna know who I thought played the best defense on Kevin Jones?
Rodney McGruder.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
I agree wholeheartedly and tweeted Curtis Kitchen about that last night, asking why Rod wasn't on Jones at the end.
Rodney played some pretty good all-around defense, I thought (the 5-second call comes to mind), but specifically on Jones. You’re right about that, for sure.
JO did look bad last night.
That’s probably the worst he’s “looked” since his freshman year, but again looks are deceiving. As E says, he’s a seven footer and it takes most seven footers a long time to get full coordinated.
I’ve noticed so far this year a much better rebounding effort and better overall line from JO. He’s got places to improve as do all of them, but the guy brings effort and what seems to be a positive work ethic every time he comes on the court.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
I was sick last night so I only watched the first half.
Thanks for the recap BigE. Sad, but I’m not worried. The best (and worst) part about basketball is one games doesn’t make or break the season, especially in non-conference play. Give the Cats a hard loss now, make them work, smash North Florida on Sunday, and get ready for a good game against Bama in a week.
Go Cats! And please, please, please, keep JO from being a ball handler.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
That's a good way to look at it.
If there’s anything this team needs, it’s probably just experience.
THAT was an experience game. That’s a game we should be looking back to throughout the season.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
I was impressed with Frank's coaching
He had the team ready to attack that spread 1-3-1 zone and drew up a great play to get Rodney a look at 3 on the sideline play. Shot just didn’t fall. The team in general seemed to run better offense than it has most of the year. It was a punch-counterpunch game, and you could see the effect of coaching on both ends. This game was not decided by creative free-lancing on the floor.
Keven Jones’ 3 at the end of regulation was a dagger. I wonder if it has occurred to J-O yet that he should have ignored the jab step and stayed tight on him. If Jones drives and dunks, we win by 1. It’s a reaction thing, though, and a great play by Jones, who is a very complete player.
All-in-all, I think we grew from that game. Now, if we could just get a consultant to come in and teach the art of the free throw.
Credit to HCFM. That was a great job to get us set up against the pressure zone on the fly.
We got some really easy looks out of it; as long as you keep a cool head against the pressure, the 1-3-1 can be torn apart. It relies entirely on ball pressure and keeping the ball out of the middle, which Frank got the guys to attack.
Even though JO did bite on the jab step, (a) he did recover, and forced a higher than normal shot with a hand in his face, and (b) taking a set jumper off a jab step is VERY difficult. As much as JO crapped the bed last night, I won’t fault him for the Jones 3…that was just a hell of a shot.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
You swayed me above and I relieved some blame from JO for that last shot, because I don't even think JO should have been guarding him.
HOWEVER, I still don’t agree with your assessment of JO’s defense there. With the time and score, I absolutely think JO has to stay right on the guy’s hip. If Jones wanted to blow by him, so be it. If JO fouls him with a handcheck as he runs by, give him the free throws. But whatever you do, DON’T BITE ON THE FAKE AND GIVE THE GUY SPACE BEHIND THE ARC. Yeah, it was good that he forced a more difficult shot there, but difficult shots go in sometimes, as we saw last night. I say don’t give him any shot from 3-point-land, and you do that by being right on him and forcing a dribble drive or pass.
That’s just my take though, and certainly differences of opinion are perfectly alright to have. All in all, you and I are on the same page.
Frank took some of the responsibility
for not substituting Shane Southwell at the time-out to cover Jones. He’s right about that. There is no reason to have Henriquez on the floor when the other team absolutely has to shoot a 3.
Definitely a blunder by Frank. Also not calling a TO at the end of regulation was a poor decision.
That being said, the set plays he did call worked really well. And I never expected the team to be so good at breaking down the 1-3-1. Thought overall Frank coached very well last night.
Really great write-up, BigE.
Thanks again for doing this every game. I particularly agree with everything you say in this one, with the exception of being a bit harsh on Diaz. Relative to what he’s shown, this was a good game for him.
Anyway, time will tell whether this was a “bad loss” on the resume or not. It hurts because we easily could and should have won it. And like E said, it came down to just a handful of plays.
On a positive note, man this team played hard. Loved the effort. And Gipson is just unbelievable. Also, Tay is quickly becoming one of my favorite players. Just a great on ball defender. And while he’s not shooting well, how about the fight in Angel. Just an awesome amount of courage shown by the freshmen in this one.
Frustrated by the loss, but I don’t think there’s any doubt this is one that will pay dividends come conference play.
I don't think it will end up being a bad loss at all.
There’s no way WVU will end up at 100+ in the RPI at the end of the year. No way. They’re just too damn strong-willed, and are coached well. I think they’re being hated on a little in the Big East preseason projections…I could see this team ending up in the 4-5-6 area of the league, which should be a top-40 RPI.
Oh, come on now. That's just stupid.
Twitter - @BigE_29er
Great game future conference mates.
Good write-up about a game that either tea could have won. These two teams exhibit the same philosophy and was evident in how close they were all night. I think the refs were a little heavy-handed in the second half. Y’all are more athletic and deeper, we just happened to get a couple of shots to fall. My bet is you all end up being a higher NCAA seed than the Mountaineers. Here’s to future great games between the two programs.
Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect.
Thanks.
If last night was any indication, going to be a lot of exciting games in the future.
Rodney needs to rebound better
That’s 3 games now where he’s gotten 3 boards or less, and if it wasn’t for that 11 he had against CSU, he’d be way below where he was last year. I’m not sure what the issue is because he’s getting more minutes and seems to have even more athleticism this year with his knees at 100 percent.
Maybe the ball’s just not bouncing his way, but it sure seems like McGruder should never, ever have fewer rebounds than Spradling.
We have a bunch of rebounding and lane issues.
Not just with McGruder.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Dec 9, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
from what I've seen this season
(I think I’ve been able to watch three games), the team’s style of play has remained fairly consistent. Which is both good and bad. Against lesser competition, the team can out-muscle its opponent; but against even or better teams, not so sure.
The WVU game didn’t look all that different from the VA Tech game – not counting the refs. For all the offensive troubles, K-State actually looked decent in the first half – McGruder and Spradling showed up for the first 20 minutes. The second half almost held to form, as the Cats pushed their halftime lead to 7 early on. Except WVU is very much like K-State and battled back – and it helps to have a go-to player in Jones.
K-State is still looking for its on-court leader. McGruder would seem to be the logical, and obvious choice, but I don’t get the sense the players believe that yet. HCFM drew up the final shots for McGruder, which didn’t fall, but perhaps his faith in Rod (if it continues) will be picked up by the other guys. Rod has to also be willing to accept that role.
JamSam
An extra 30 lbs. of weight/muscle only helps if you know what to do with it. Samuels is, unfortunately, the same player he was last year. The extra weight is just that, extra.
Samuels isn’t a true power forward – he’s not a banger. But he has no outside shot, either (in an ideal world, he would be just enough of a threat outside, he could take some defenders off the dribble).
He has always struck me as a poor man’s Lamar Odom. Tons of talent, but not quite mature enough or emotionally under control enough to see it through. Seemed to play a little better coming off the bench the last couple of seasons. Not sure that’s an option this year, though.
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