12/6/11 K-State Links
by Anon_the_younger on Dec 6, 2011 8:26 AM CST
Email
PrintSeveral announcements related to football from K-Statesports.com. Tysyn Hartman receives $18,000 post-graduate scholarship and is a Campbell Trophy Finalist. Coach Snyder received the 2011 Woody Hayes Award, A Coach of the Year award from the Touchdown Club of Columbus. Anthony Cantele is Big 12 Special Teams Player of the Week. And the Mercury has a column that sums the season up nicely.
On the volleyball front, Kuulei Kabalis will play in front of her family, she might have up to a thousand people rooting for the Cats. Husker extra has a nice write up about the Lady Cats.
On the Lady Cat basketball front, the last non-conference home game is against Wichita State. While on the men's side Jamar Samuels is the player of the week for the Big 12 hoopsters, men's basketball play WVU in Wichita on Dec 8 at 8p CST.
K-State Salina is adding more helicopter flight training to its offerings.
Spencer Hall evaluates all the bowls at the mother ship and Bill C makes his picks.
All comments, FanPosts and FanShots reflect only the view of the user creating them.
55 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
WARNING
Anyone who reads this will feel sick to their stomach.
Why wouldn't OU be head of his in selection?
They would have been ranked ahead of us in that scenario. Still Neinas wasn’t fuckin willing to make deals for us?
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Agree,
but some things I’ve taken from all this are:
1) Swap K-State’s position (#8 in BCS, second in conference) with Oklahoma and no way the Sugar Bowl bypasses on the Sooners. In fact, the Sugar Bowl falls all over itself to get OU as its first invite.
2) Note the money donated by the Sugar Bowl to Virginia Tech. Something Curtis Kitchen also breaks down to greater effect here.
Yeah...
Especially when you consider that if he had tried to go to bat for us then every institution in the conference could have possibly received an additional $1 mil…I’m guessing the Sugar must have told him straight up that they wouldn’t take us cuz we are a “small market team” and its bad for business.
Snyder is absolutely right. 1 and 2 are guarenteed a spot in the title game. The rest of the top ten should be protected as well unless there is a third team in the top ten from the same conference or if there is an AQ conference champion outside of the top ten. See Arkansas and WVU…if they really want to make the process “fair” then a change of that nature needs to be discussed in January…but I don’t think they want it to be. But I assume they better do something soon since everyone knows that they passed over the 2 most qualified teams this year for the Sugar Bowl for teams with a “footprint…”. It’s supposed to be what happened THIS season. Not the last 40…
by Kohawk84 on Dec 6, 2011 11:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
So long as the College Football hierarchy
insists we are a “small market team” (or as I prefer to use for their parlance, a “no-name team”) then we will remain a small market team. The surest way for K-State to expand its media presence and bolsters its national image is through access to new bowls. Cole Manbeck over at the Mercury notes how in the past consistent-winner K-State somehow managed to constantly slip through the BCS at-large bid net. While I think overall the Cotton Bowl today is a better bowl, K-State can’t sell to recruits that it was just in a “BCS bowl”. It doesn’t get to tap into a new bowl venue and show Sugar Bowl reps how well K-State travels, nor does it allow for K-State coaches to use such an appearance in New Orleans to tap into Louisiana and possibly Mississippi recruiting fields. And most importantly (as you point out), it denies the Big-12 – and K-State – millions more in bowl earnings.
Bottom line is that a school like K-State is essentially given the mandate that it must win 10 games a year, every year, and even then – unless it wins the Big-12 title or finishes #1 in the polls – it ain’t getting any BCS love. Someone should remind these boobs that Oklahoma was once a dust bowl wasteland and that Nebraska isn’t exactly home to a massive population. They are only “big market” schools because their brand was given opportunities to grow on a national stage (and, to their credit, they took advantage of those opportunities by winning).
Exactly. well put.
Nebraska geographically sells what? The Omaha market? They don’t consider this cuz the Huskers have a footprint…KSU is not given the chance to make one and subsequently are held to a higher standard and are expected to go well above and beyond what teams like VT, Michigan, OU and NU have to…we cannot get to their level because frankly…the powers that be don’t want us to. They want us in a non AQ conference cuz we are held to the same standards as Nevada, Boise, TCU etc…wildy unfair considering we really did beat the odds in more ways than one this year…
by Kohawk84 on Dec 6, 2011 12:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Is anyone surprised that Neinas did not go to bat for us? I wasn’t - I predicted it
On September 27th, I posted this about Neinas (among other things) in a thread that got a little overheated):
"…Past actions show that OU and UT have acted in concert on issues. When Neinas ran the Big 8, he did whatever OU and Nub wanted. He does what the Big Boys want. It is who he is, and it is what he has been. I’’m just sayin, don’’t be surprised…."
http://www.bringonthecats.com/2011/9/27/2452309/kste-slate-9-27-11
Our only hope is to keep winning so that when the next round of consolidation comes (and it will, I think we all know that now; the shit I’ve been talking about is being played out in real time), they simply can’t leave us out.
Look, the Big Boys don’t want us coming up the ladder, even when we earn it. We all know that. So let’s get pissed off and hope our team curb stomps Razorback.
And next year, we have to kick the crap out of Sooner (from whom Neinas takes his marching orders).
oh hail the Purple and White
Don't you get tired of all of the "man got us down" angles by now?
It’s getting a little old hearing about it every other day.
Look I’ll give you credit for predicting whatever you predicted, I’m just not going to waste my time reading whatever link it is you posted.
Call it what you want, but until something cost us not going to the nat’l championship that isn’t losing a game (meaning we run the table and don’t go in), no one’s really going to care about whether we went to the Sugar bowl to play a 14th ranked team or the Cotton Bowl to beat a 6th ranked team 20 years from now. I’m more concerned about finishing a 10-2 season 11-2, and using it as a building block somehow to get to a conference championship or nat’l championship game. Whether that’s 1, 2, or 4 years down the road I don’t care. I trust Bill being able to roll one year’s success into a next year’s success. I already have a precedent between 1992-2000, and 2002-2003.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I don't disagree with you, but.........
You always know there’s going to be a but. The but here is recruiting. Now granted, HCBS doesn’t go after the 4 & 5 stars anyhow particularly, but he does want to target the good athletes who see what K-State is able to do and what past K-Staters have been able to accomplish.
The one thing I will say about this whole situation with how far ESPN has inserted its tentacles in this whole deal is that I think the FTC and the FCC do have a responsibility to look at this as a possible restraint of trade. You know damn well the Deathstar is influencing a lot of this and if they control that much of it, then there are institutions and organizations that are losing money and not in a position to do anything about it.
We’re not just talking about Fox Sports here either.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
good points.
I too agree there was more fishiness going along with ESPN’s involvement as well, but hey as long as you have the rights to something, no matter what it is, do you blame them for trying to make it the most successful version of itself? After all the point of a business is to make money. Not that I agree with it at all, but if I was running BCS, I’d be making my decisions with the cash register as well, and not the heart. If it was a small business, I might be more likely to run it with a heart and not the cash register as I would likely have relationships with my “common customers”…but if they think they can one way make a calculated profit margin of X why would you expect them to take route B to make a profit margin of less than X? It’s shitty I know.
Anyway, back to the recruiting. I think playing in the backyard of the closest, richest, dense-est recruiting pool we have to us against another regional school for that recruiting area, against the “#1 Conference” is probably more advantageous for us. Plus having it go up against no other games on a Friday night is better than having 6 games to watch on Jan. 2nd as is the case with the Sugar. I think we actually may have got the sweetest deal out of all of this (if we win), maybe just sweeter deal if we lose, or a wash (other than the money).
I just get sick of all of the conspiracy theory posts all the damn time.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Well, that's the thing, you don't EXPECT them too.
But you have to demand it, since you are the customer. Otherwise you just let yourself get screwed over and over because, “hey they’re just being selfish and I can’t fault them for that.”
You don’t have to fault them for it, but they will keep doing it to you until you demand otherwise.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 6, 2011 8:38 PM CST up reply actions
I dont like endulging in the conspiracy
theories and I do admit that West Virginia and TCU joining the league has made me feel better about the stability and long term future of the conference but this latest turn of events with OSU getting screwed out of the title game and KSU getting passed over for 2 teams that have combined for one victory over a team currently ranked in the top 25 has me convinced that the Big 12 is living on borrowed time and that the powers that be have no plans to include the wildcats in their party…I am sorry to have stirred the pot.
by Kohawk84 on Dec 6, 2011 10:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well,
we just have to upset their plans. A win ove Arkie will be a good start. Next year, we have two leaders (HCBS) and Klein, and a darn good supporting cast, that will be in a position to further build a set of “eyeballs” for the Wildcat brand.
I am not as pessimistic on our future as some may surmise. But I also believe in being aware of the forces that affect us, as uncomfortable as that may be, for only then can effective plans be made to confront those forces.
KU may be in a worse position than KSU. I think we are going to be alright. We just have to keep winning over “eyeballs” across the nation; be polite when dealing with other fan bases (which some around here weren’t when dealing with the Mizzou issue), and continue to build so much goodwill that the powers that be can’[t leave us hanging.
I’ve seen real and positive changes in the way that ESPN has reported on KSU this year. I think Colin Klein has a real chance to be in the Heisman conversation next year, and I think we will have a real chance to win the conference next year.
We have a darn good basketball coach and a solid, well run athletic department. I think things are in a position where it will be very hard to push us away from the “big boy” table when the next round of this madness flares up.
Actually, I’m more optimistic now than I was in late August.
EMAW!
oh hail the Purple and White
hot damn, now that's talkin'
One thing that hit me in your post there, was the being nice to other fanbases. I’ve been trying. Ever since my experience at aTm in 2008, I’ve been trying to pay it forward to a deserving fanbase. Did it last Saturday to a polite Cyclone fan. Come to think of it I had good luck with them back in 2009 at the arrowhead Farmageddon. They deserve it. But yea, I’m hoping to help build up our reputation as fans.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I hope you are right
And I am sure that the possible consolidation won’t be as bad as we all fear if it comes to pass but when referring to KU I think it would simply come down to their football program making the drop to FCS and men’s basketball being their main money maker, so in reality…not that much different than it already is at the “school down the river.” This seems to suggest to me that KU could survive that way as Nova and Georgetown currently operate in a similar manner.
I fear what would happen to KSU if they are left out tho…Even tho we have a great all around athletic program I have a hard time seeing how success could be sustained with the huge cut in revenue we would most certainly have to take from a relegation…
by Kohawk84 on Dec 6, 2011 10:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not at all convinced that the Big-12 is dead
I think, actually, it proved this season to be stronger than ever and the addition of TCU and WVU more than make up for the losses of Mizzou and A&M in terms of on-field football quality (though they do not replace the size and passion of the A&M fan-base). We still have quality schools wanting “in” to the Big-12. Trust me, there are others also who have made back-channel requests for a Big-12 invite. I also think we end up expanding back to 12 before 2015.
I don’t see the middle of the country being left without a major football conference a part of the long-term big-time college football picture.
People weren't "nice" to Mizzou fans
simply because of the fact that Mizzou had a lot to do with the troubles in the Big-12 and Mizzou fans remained in complete denial, insisting – as usual – it was everyone’s fault but their own and trying to use plausible deniability regarding their Big-10 overtures in 2009-10.
Sorry, Mizzou doesn’t get a pass. If anything, everyone went too easy on ’em. While I agree with your point about being polite to other fans, those fans also need to be rational. If they are not – like Mizzou and A&M fans were not – then the gloves come off.
I wasnt mad at all Mizzou fans
They as a fan base had little say over where their beloved athletic program ended up. I was just irked at the ones who talked smack on the big 12 on their way out the door and insisted we were destined for the lower ranks. Also the ones that blamed KU for something that wasn’t even remotely their fault…the ones that were honest and said they were sad to leave us behind but thought the move was in the best interet of Mizzou I was ok with because I can understand that view point after all the uncertainty KSU, ISU, MU, KU and Baylor fans have had to cope with over the course if the last 2 years.
by Kohawk84 on Dec 7, 2011 9:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Agree that it wasn't "all" Mizzou fans
Just a bunch of them, particularly those in denial that Mizzou played any part in unease and disgruntlement in the Big-12.
I'm not sure I believe their fan base didn't help determine the outcome
If 99% of the fanbase was yelling about how they wanted to stay in the B12 do you really think the administration wouldn’t have listened? It was my impression that they were unsure of whether they really wanted to leave or not, but realized they had no choice once the fans all decided they wanted to leave. They’d have been run out of town if they made any other decision.
I agree with you in that I also think the fanbase
Played a role in their decision to leave but it was probably more in the hands of the administration and wealthy alumni. I also think the local media (which is very homerish) in the state of Missouri influenced the move as well. I have been told that a vast majorty of the athletic staffs at both A&M and Mizzou at least inwardly opposed the move. Cannot confirm this though.
by Kohawk84 on Dec 7, 2011 1:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If you've been paying attention to my posts on this subject, I haven't
been that upset about the Cotton Bowl matchup. And I haven’t been posting about “the man keeping us down” anything close to “every other day.” (recently)
And I don’t know how what you said in your last paragraph (which I agree with) is significantly different than what I said in my last two paragraphs.
oh hail the Purple and White
yea ok, I'm back from the ledge
I know you’re on board with the Cotton, just though we’ve moved past the snubbing that bringing it up again is kinda pointless now that we’re two days removed.
i will also admit to exaggerating the frequency point of (some of) your sentiments.
I’m not 100% on what you’ve said to date on the Cotton, though I won’t say I have generated all of that last paragraph on my own
"Nor yet in Dell?"
A defensive review of Cosh's performance over the last three years.
Would you like some Freys with that?
One nit-pick with the Mercury article.
He says:
They’re 10-2, they won all those nail-biters, and (without intending to dump on anybody’s athletic ability) they just don’t have that much talent. There’s no Terence Newman on the roster this year, nor Chad May.
I don’t know about the overall talent of the ‘93 team, and I agree that 2002 was overall more talented, but to say that there is no transcendent talent is to overlook Arthur Brown. The funny thing is, he doesn’t. The very next paragraph he says this:
Arthur Brown changed the makeup of the whole defense.
So, could he maybe be the Terrence Newman or Chad May that you are looking for? I guarantee he will be playing in the NFL when he goes pro, barring injury. Will he be as good as Newman? Remains to be seen, but he certainly has had a tremendous impact for our defense.
And I remember Newman, not trying to short-sell him here. I remember vividly his tremendous USC game. That guy took over games. Brown hasn’t quite done that this year. But he has provided a significant impact that you could point to and say, “Well, there is a primary reason for their remarkable improvement from last year to this year.”
Would you like some Freys with that?
Good point
I would agree with the writer, however, that the ‘93 and ’02 teams were more talented than this year’s version. Although you could argue in the case of the ’93 team that it is not by much.
I wasn't meaning to argue the overall talent point.
I meant that I didn’t know much about ‘93 talent, since I wasn’t paying attention to KSU at the time.
And I definitely agree that 2002 had more overall talent.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 6, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I understood you
The omission of Brown, as you point out, was huge. But then part of the “story” for this year’s team was that it was a scrappy, overachieving bunch of no-names so pointing out that Arthur Brown is a former 5-star recruit and stud linebacker might diminish that story depending on the reader.
By the way, Chris: Are you heading to Dallas for the game? I’m assuming TB is wussing out. We need a BOTC head-count and a tailgate. That is unless folks are planning on spending $50 for the K-State pre-game party.
Oh yeah, I'm going for sure.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 6, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
I would also say you could compare the
“flat footed” Chad May, to the “run first” Collin Klein. Allbeit 1 dimensional they both are in different ways. I’m not old enough to remember Chad May’s performances to the detail of anyone after him, but I don’t know I think you can compare the two in terms of being like spring boards for future success.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I think the difference was
May was very, very good passer, but he also came across as self-absorbed and arrogant. That can come across as swagger and confidence at first, but eventually wears on people. May lifted K-State football to a new level and deserves a lot of credit and accolades. In fact, he’s the best pure passer I saw in a K-State uniform (wasn’t around for Lynn Dickey or Steve Grogan – or even Carl Straw) and that includes Josh Freeman. I was at KSU at the time and he led some unbelievable comebacks (with some help, of course, of guys like Kevin Lockett ,Andre Coleman and Mitch Running). You never felt the game was out of reach with him behind center (except in the 1994 Aloha Bowl) because he led such an effective passing attack. And actually, down near the goal line he wasn’t all that bad running the option, either. Certainly not fast, but quick enough to evade pressure in the pocket and score on some two-point conversion option keepers.
Apart from being a very effective runner, Colin Klein is more of a leader-by-example type. The team seems to draw strength from his toughness and leadership (the latter with May might fairly be called into question). Both were able to elevate their teams by performance, but only one seems to have rallied their team around him (HBCK). May had some great performances, but I’m not sure any as gutty as those pulled off by Colin Klein this year.
Good analysis of Chad May as a QB and as a leader.
There is every indication that the debacle in the Aloha Bowl in 94 was due primarily to Chad May’s self-absorbed attitude. He patted himself on the back so much that his offensive line essentially invited him to win the game all by himself, since he was so great.
That being said, May was a great passer and was pretty tough in the pocket. He’d stand in there and deliver. As CT says, he had some people stepping up as receivers and kick returners that took the pressure off.
I don’t think May was close to Lynn Dickey, personally, as a passer or as a team leader. Dickey had a swagger but he was a team oriented leader. He gave credit where credit was due. Same with Grogan, although Grogan never had even the level of a surrounding cast that Dickey did (an Dickey didn’t have a great one). Grogan turned out to have a much better pro career but part of that was due to the injury Dickey sustained. Grogan never seemed to me to be much of a great passer, but capable and his pro career sort of supports that idea.
Klein is, to me, probably the best overall leader among the four of them. His passes look a lot like Grogans and it seems to me that I used to see Grogan bleeding at various orifices during games.
Jeez. It’s kind of hard for an old guy to remember that far back.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
that is how I remember it too, Arkie.
Dickey – great passer.
Grogan – good passer, tough runner who ran the veer offense.
May – great arm, but not better than Dickey’s.
Klein – I think he is the best leader of the bunch.
Of course, Bishop was a unique leader for what he helped to accomplish. He probably has to be considered our “best” QB, because he got us over the hump. Roberson was special too.
oh hail the Purple and White
I'll trust you and Arkie on Dickey and Grogan
Everything all the older K-State fans told me about Dickey leads me to believe he was the best KSU QB ever. But since I was only there from Paul Watson onward I can’t judge fairly.
As for May, I think what made him unique – besides his incredible passing ability – was his swagger. He really allowed K-State under Snyder 1 to make that big leap from competitive .500 level to bowl-worthy, upper-tier level. The change in team attitude and ability to close in the 4th quarter from the year before (‘92) when the forgettable Jason Smargiasso was under center was incredible. May doesn’t get credit for his ability to scramble and throw on the run – saw him countless times make something out of nothing on a broken play. He was no slow, cement-footed QB that people conjure up when thinking “pocket passer”.
Bishop took it to the next level, and had similar swagger, but more competitive fire and heart. It was almost like Bish was a linebacker leading a defense out there instead of a QB.
Klein is the best combination of toughness, heart, quiet confidence and leadership of them all.
look, great analysis...I really did enjoy it, but...
You’re looking into it too deep. My comparison was simply this:
May was 1 dimensional (as a great pocket passer)
Klein was 1 dimensional (as a great runner)
Both almost single handly “made” their team great
Both took the program to new heights since Snyder took over (v1.0 and v2.0).
That was what I meant.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
You're right all around
Just pointed all that out since you mentioned above that you didn’t see May play. And I completely agree that each took the program to new heights (in Klein’s case resurrected what once was and did it in new fashion).
oh, well then in that case...
I see now. I did enjoy the backdrop you painted though of May.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Something from the Deathstar
More love for HBCK. Most Suprising Player
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Keep voting for Snyder COY at the top of this page
if espn chooses Les Miles and the vote count is lopsided, everyone will at least know. Right now it’s like 3900 Sndyer 328 Miles.
Bitchslapping Texas since 1997
Anyone hear Dodd this morning on the Border Patrol
He said about all he could including “by 2014 we will have a different way of determining a champion” before stopping short of saying it would be a +1 model. Anyone else get that vibe? Sounded like he was hinting at +1.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I did. I also heard Bukaty (and agreed) that if they go this route...
It will be an inevitability before we get something resembling a playoff because the money in a +1 model will get that ball rolling.
HOWEVER…I personally don’t believe we’ll ever see an NCAA sanctioned FBS playoff. It will be something like a BCS playoff.
And we better hope to God that we kill the Big East sooner rather than later because once this happens, FBS is going to shrink.
Bring on the Cats - Our Site
@PJ_BOTC - My Twitter
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Oh God, here we go again
with the 64-team “elite level” of college football. And another stretch where K-State fans have to sweat out having a seat at the big boys table.
there were some hints of that hidden in the quotes as well that I don't think have been getting enough play
It went something like this:like “there are alliances to be made, and backs to be watched”…which was a quote that followed this previous one:
“Boise State didn’t get into the Sugar Bowl for reasons I won’t go into here. Look, (pause)”
You’re better off listening to the podcast yourselves, but I took it as something like the Sugar Bowl didn’t want one of it’s last Sugar Bowls to have a Big 12 team in it, sort of implying that it would look smarter on paper historically if the teams came from the ACC and B1G. I took that to mean that there is more shuffling to be done. Puke.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
These sound like "conspiracy theories" to me
they must therefore be disregarded! Because we all know that “conspiracy theories” are, well … you know – they are “conspiracy theories”, not to be taken serioulsy!
oh hail the Purple and White
Just gave it a listen
Couple of things: First, Brad Edwards asks if OSU being left out of the national championship is a result of the “collapse of the Big-12”. Well, Brad, last I checked the Big-12 has not collapsed. So strike one for you.
Then they talk about how if the Big-12 had played its old championship game on Saturday then OSU would have been in if it had won. Yes, on additional BCS points. But…OSU did play a conference championship game on Saturday against Oklahoma. And won. It just wasn’t a 13th game. Nor a “conference championship game” in the actual sense. I do agree that the Big-12 needs to get back to 12 teams and bring back the actual cc.
Another way of looking at the Sugar Bowl selection was they simply wanted “name” teams and didn’t consider K-State a name team. In that instance the Big-12 versus ACC versus Big-10 conspiracy theories had nothing to do with it. I do agree that Chuck Neinas simply did not fight hard enough for us and hasn’t raised a big enough stink over the Big-12 only getting one BCS bowl and zero at-large bids.
Didn’t really perceive that they were implying conference shuffling is ready to take off again, but…who knows. Sometimes I wonder if the media really digs this BCS $#it because it gives them something to blather on about.
And the AP Big XII Coach of the Year is......
HCBS in a landslide!!!!!!
http://cjonline.com/sports/2011-12-06/ap-snyder-named-big-12s-top-coach
At least our own media doesn't screw us
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
From CBSSports.com
An article on Big East Expansion also including a map of the “new” Big East
My favorite part is the quote from WVU AD Oliver Luck near the end
“Our coaches are starting to think about Kansas State, Oklahoma and Texas and all the other schools we’ll be facing in the Big 12 next year.”
He just gained brownie points with me
I like that guy.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
BEast
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bring On The Cats
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
