Chris Cosh: Should He Stay Or Should He Go? Measuring His Progess Over Three Years
Much anger has been exerted on this site for the perceived lack of progress that has been the trademark of the Chris Cosh Defense. This year, however, after winning ten games (with several key late-game defensive heroics) the narrative has emerged that Cosh has seriously improved this defense from a year ago. So, the question is begged, which is the correct viewpoint? The only way to know for sure is by comparing the numbers from every year.
Overall Defense |
||||||||
| Year | YPG | Rank | Passing | Rank | Rushing | Rank | Total | YPP |
| 2011 | 398.80 | 76 | 3207 | 104 | 1578 | 39 | 4785 | 5.66 |
| 2010 | 445.69 | 106 | 2786 | 52 | 3008 | 119 | 5795 | 6.40 |
| 2009 | 339.92 | 39 | 2815 | 83 | 1265 | 16 | 4079 | 5.40 |
Difference Per Game |
||||||||
| Year | Total Yards* | Passing Yards | Rushing Yards | YPP | 3rd Down %** | RZ TD %** | RZ FG %** | Red Zone %** |
| 2011 | -40.49 | 10.17 | -50.66 | -0.20 | -1.74 | -2.58 | -3.78 | -8.99 |
| 2010 | 37.15 | -9.73 | 46.89 | 1.16 | 2.96 | 6.30 | -1.85 | 4.45 |
| 2009 | -38.73 | -13.43 | -25.30 | -0.06 | 1.55 | 1.03 | -5.60 | -4.57 |
*To make the comparison more informative, I have excluded the KSU game stats from each team's overall numbers.
**Percentages are measured in percentage points. So, if we held a team to 2.75 below their season average of 30%, we would have held them 27.25%.
Unfortunately for those advocating for Cosh's removal (myself included), these numbers would suggest that this has been the best defense of the Bill Snyder 2.0 era. While the total yards are on par with 2009, 3rd down and Red Zone defense have shown marked improvement. Our only hope of finding statistical proof of decline is to look at other defensive stats, such as INTs and Sacks, which have been remarkably consistent over the years.
Miscellaneous Defense |
||||
| Year | Interceptions | Rank | Sacks | Rank |
| 2011 | 18 | T5 | 19 | T83 |
| 2010 | 13 | T49 | 20 | T85 |
| 2009 | 13 | T30 | 20 | T82 |
But that consistency is misleading. If you compare those numbers next to the number of plays that were run, you find that this defense has dropped off somewhat in sack production. That could be an indicator that the our ability to pressure the quarterback has declined.
Per Play Defense |
|||||||
| Year | Pass Attempts | Sack % | INT % | Yards Per Pass Attempt | Rush Attempts | Yards Per Rush Attempt | Yards Per Play |
| 2011 | 447 | 4.25%5 | 4.03% | 7.17 | 399 | 3.95 | 5.66 |
| 2010 | 400 | 5.00% | 3.25% | 6.97 | 507 | 5.93 | 6.40 |
| 2009 | 395 | 5.06% | 3.29% | 7.12 | 362 | 3.49 | 5.40 |
What does all of this mean? Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions, but to me, the numbers show that Cosh, when given the right athletes, can coach against the run. He is really good at stopping the rush in 2/3 years (and historically bad in the other year, but there was a noticeable lack of speed at linebacker).
However, his pass defense has remained consistently weak. The only "good" year he had , 2010, was in retrospect not very good at all and only in comparison to how awful we were against the run. This also seems to fit well with real world events. We now have a Co-Defensive Coordinator in charge of passing. Perhaps that is because Cosh is not that good against the pass? And if you look back on when our defense dropped off after 2003, it also coincided with the rise of the passing offense. I would submit that the reason for that was that Cosh could not come up with a scheme to contain those offenses. I would also submit that he still has not done so.
Except we are forgetting something here. These numbers have been 'deflated' from the weaker non-conference teams. If we only include stats from games against major conference competition, we see a different story.
Difference Per Game |
Difference Per Game vs FBS |
Difference Per Game vs BCS |
||||||||||||||||
| Year | Total Yards | Passing Yards | Rushing Yards | YPP | Year | Total Yards | Passing Yards | Rushing Yards | YPP | Year | Total Yards | Passing Yards | Rushing Yards | YPP | ||||
| 2011 | -40.49 | 10.17 | -50.66 | -0.20 | 2011 | -23.12 | 13.69 | -36.82 | -6.57 | 2011 | -19.53 | 22.09 | -41.62 | 0.12 | ||||
| 2010 | 37.15 | -9.73 | 46.89 | 1.16 | 2010 | 38.28 | -16.93 | 55.21 | 1.19 | 2010 | 37.24 | -15.94 | 53.19 | 1.19 | ||||
| 2009 | -38.73 | -13.43 | -25.30 | -0.06 | 2009 | -13.02 | 1.58 | -14.60 | 0.40 | 2009 | -5.41 | 6.58 | -11.99 | 0.52 | ||||
These numbers show us that against the 2009 defense may not have actually been that good, once you remove the two FCS teams and UL-Lafayette from the schedule. Furthermore, Cosh's 2011 defense also weakens considerably when faced with stiffer competition. Only his 2010 defense was a consistent performer; it was bad across the board.
Still, Cosh's 2011 defense is pretty stout against the run. Whether tat is because teams don't bother running against us because they know they can pass, or whether it is simply because Arthur Brown is a beast, we can not say definitively at this point. All we know for sure is that against BCS competition, Cosh's defense has improved by 90 yards against the run, and regressed by 40 yards against the pass.
For anyone interested, here is the raw data set from which I drew these numbers:
2011 Defense |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Total Offense | Offense Per Game | Against KSU | Difference | ||||||||||||||||||
| Opponent | W | L | Total | Passing | Rushing | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | ||||
| EKU | 7 | 5 | 3966 | 1624 | 2324 | 360.55 | 147.64 | 212.91 | 5.45 | 129 | 119 | 10 | 2.43 | -231.55 | -28.64 | -202.91 | -3.02 | ||||
| Kent St. | 5 | 7 | 2839 | 1664 | 1175 | 258.09 | 151.27 | 106.82 | 3.94 | 199 | 81 | 118 | 3.37 | -59.09 | -70.27 | 11.18 | -0.57 | ||||
| @Miami | 6 | 6 | 4533 | 2785 | 1748 | 412.09 | 253.18 | 158.91 | 6.06 | 411 | 272 | 139 | 7.09 | -1.09 | 18.82 | -19.91 | 1.03 | ||||
| Baylor | 9 | 3 | 6426 | 3928 | 2498 | 584.18 | 357.09 | 227.09 | 7.54 | 429 | 346 | 83 | 6.92 | -155.18 | -11.09 | -144.09 | -0.62 | ||||
| Missouri | 7 | 5 | 5343 | 2627 | 2716 | 485.73 | 238.82 | 246.91 | 6.42 | 326 | 214 | 112 | 4.94 | -159.73 | -24.82 | -134.91 | -1.48 | ||||
| @TT | 5 | 7 | 5067 | 3679 | 1388 | 460.64 | 334.45 | 126.18 | 5.67 | 580 | 461 | 119 | 6.04 | 119.36 | 126.55 | -7.18 | 0.37 | ||||
| @KU | 2 | 10 | 3636 | 1798 | 1838 | 330.55 | 163.45 | 167.09 | 4.72 | 286 | 210 | 76 | 3.92 | -44.55 | 46.55 | -91.09 | -0.80 | ||||
| Oklahoma | 9 | 3 | 5695 | 3861 | 1834 | 517.73 | 351.00 | 166.73 | 6.20 | 690 | 520 | 170 | 9.20 | 172.27 | 169.00 | 3.27 | 3.00 | ||||
| @OSU | 11 | 1 | 6109 | 4133 | 1976 | 555.36 | 375.73 | 179.64 | 7.01 | 575 | 502 |
73 | 9.13 | 19.64 | 126.27 | -106.64 | 2.12 | ||||
| aTm | 6 | 6 | 5482 | 3245 | 2237 | 498.36 | 295.00 | 203.36 | 6.17 | 482 | 210 | 272 | 5.42 | -16.36 | -85.00 | 68.64 | -0.75 | ||||
| @Texas | 7 | 5 | 4538 | 2204 | 2334 | 412.55 | 200.36 | 212.18 | 5.58 | 310 | 119 | 191 | 4.19 | -102.55 | -81.36 | -21.18 | -1.39 | ||||
| ISU | 6 | 6 | 4346 | 2387 | 1959 | 395.09 | 217.00 | 178.09 | 4.97 | 368 | 153 | 215 | 4.72 | -27.09 | -64.00 | 36.91 | -0.25 | ||||
| AVG | -40.49 | 10.17 | -50.66 | -0.20 | |||||||||||||||||
Some interesting items from this season:
1. We only allowed opponents to gain more than their season average in 3 games this season. We were 1-2 in those games. (TT, OU, OSU)
2. Despite going into 4OT with aTm, we still managed to keep them under their season average in every category (including total yards) except rushing.
2010 Defense |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Total Offense | Offense Per Game | Against KSU | Difference | ||||||||||||||||||
| Opponent | W | L | Total | Passing | Rushing | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | ||||
| UCLA | 4 | 8 | 3487 | 1573 | 1914 | 317 | 143.00 | 174.00 | 4.67 | 313 | 120 | 193 | 5.00 | -4.00 | -23.00 | 19.00 | 0.33 | ||||
| SW Mizz. State |
5 | 6 | 4233 |
2043 |
2190 |
423.30 |
204.30 |
219.00 |
4.53 |
447 |
281 | 166 | 5.30 |
23.70 |
76.70 | -53.00 | 0.77 | ||||
| *ISU | 5 | 7 | 3516 |
1969 |
1547 | 319.64 |
179.00 |
140.64 | 5.94 |
293 |
122 |
171 | 4.30 |
-26.64 | -57.00 | 30.36 | -1.64 | ||||
| UCF | 11 | 3 | 4892 |
2518 |
2374 | 376.31 |
193.69 |
182.62 |
5.86 |
344 |
92 |
252 |
5.00 |
-32.31 | -101.69 | 69.38 | -0.86 | ||||
|
Nebraska |
10 | 4 | 5574 | 2108 | 3466 |
428.77 | 162.15 |
266.62 | 5.70 |
587 |
136 |
451 |
11.30 |
158.23 | -26.15 | 184.38 | 5.60 | ||||
| @KU | 3 | 9 | 3557 |
1942 |
1615 | 323.36 |
176.55 |
146.82 | 4.33 |
331 |
228 |
103 | 4.00 |
7.64 |
51.54 | -43.82 | -0.33 | ||||
| @Baylor | 7 | 6 |
6179 |
3649 |
2530 |
514.92 |
304.08 |
210.83 |
6.40 |
683 |
404 |
279 |
9.00 |
168.08 |
99.92 | 68.17 | 2.60 | ||||
| OSU | 11 | 2 | 6763 |
4496 |
2267 |
563.58 | 374.67 |
188.92 | 6.92 | 511 |
298 |
213 |
6.70 |
-52.58 | -76.67 | 24.08 | -0.22 | ||||
|
Texas |
5 | 7 | 4590 |
2784 |
1806 | 417.27 |
253.09 |
164.18 | 5.24 |
412 |
272 |
140 |
4.80 |
-5.27 |
18.91 | -24.18 | -0.44 | ||||
|
@Missouri |
10 | 3 | 5325 |
3292 | 2033 | 443.75 | 274.33 | 169.42 |
5.60 |
440 | 208 | 232 | 6.90 |
-3.75 | -66.33 | 62.58 | 1.30 | ||||
| @Colorado | 5 | 7 | 4314 | 2672 | 1642 |
392.18 |
242.91 | 149.27 |
4.95 |
476 |
225 |
251 |
6.80 |
83.82 |
-17.91 | 101.73 | 1.85 | ||||
|
@UNT |
3 | 9 | 4503 | 2077 | 2426 |
409.36 |
188.82 |
220.55 |
5.32 |
459 |
161 | 298 | 8.70 |
49.64 | -27.82 | 77.45 | 3.38 | ||||
| *Syracuse | 8 | 5 | 4197 | 2375 | 1822 | 381.55 | 215.91 | 165.64 | 4.97 | 498 | 239 |
259 | 7.70 |
116.45 | 23.09 | 93.36 | 2.73 | ||||
| AVG | 37.15 | -9.73 | 46.89 | 1.16 | |||||||||||||||||
2009 Defense |
|||||||||||||||||||||
| Total Offense | Offense Per Game | Against KSU | Difference | ||||||||||||||||||
| Opponent | W | L | Total | Passing | Rushing | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | Total | Passing | Rushing | YPP | ||||
| UMASS | 5 | 6 | 3942 | 2419 | 1523 | 394.20 | 241.90 | 152.30 | 5.59 | 212 | 102 | 110 | 3.50 | -182.20 | -139.90 | -42.30 | -2.09 | ||||
| @UL-Laf. | 6 | 6 | 4054 | 2513 | 1541 | 368.55 | 228.45 | 140.09 | 5.05 | 287 | 185 | 102 | 4.40 | -81.55 | -43.45 | -38.09 | -0.65 | ||||
| @UCLA | 7 | 6 | 4027 | 2710 | 1317 | 335.58 | 225.83 | 109.75 | 5.01 | 359 | 186 | 173 | 6.20 | 23.42 | -39.83 | 63.25 | 1.19 | ||||
| Tenn. Tech | 6 | 5 | 2981 | 1765 | 1216 | 298.10 | 176.50 | 121.60 | 5.04 | 107 | 126 | -19 | 2.40 | -191.10 | -50.50 | -140.60 | -2.64 | ||||
| *ISU | 7 | 6 | 4370 | 2239 | 2131 | 364.17 | 186.58 | 177.58 | 5.28 | 371 | 164 | 207 | 5.50 | 6.83 | -22.58 | 29.42 | 0.22 | ||||
| @TT | 9 | 4 | 5381 | 4474 | 907 | 448.42 | 372.83 | 75.58 | 5.89 | 739 | 554 | 185 | 9.90 | 290.58 | 181.17 | 109.42 | 4.01 | ||||
| aTm | 6 | 7 | 5754 | 3347 | 2407 | 479.50 | 278.92 | 200.58 | 5.92 | 301 | 314 | -13 | 4.40 | -178.50 | 35.08 | -213.58 | -1.52 | ||||
| Colorado | 3 | 9 | 3528 | 2533 | 995 | 320.73 | 230.27 | 90.45 | 4.47 | 244 | 184 | 60 | 3.60 | -76.73 | -46.27 | -30.45 | -0.87 | ||||
| @Oklahoma | 8 | 5 | 5052 | 3466 | 1586 | 421.00 | 288.83 | 132.17 | 5.43 | 458 | 294 |
164 | 6.40 | 37.00 | 5.17 | 31.83 | 0.98 | ||||
| KU | 5 | 7 | 4768 | 3483 | 1285 | 433.45 | 316.64 | 116.82 | 5.79 | 301 | 241 | 60 | 4.70 | -132.45 | -75.64 | -56.82 | -1.09 | ||||
| Missouri | 8 | 5 | 4794 | 3278 | 1516 | 399.50 | 273.17 | 126.33 | 5.68 | 433 | 298 | 135 | 8.50 | 33.50 | 24.83 | 8.67 | 2.82 | ||||
| @Nebraska | 10 | 4 | 4151 | 2193 | 1958 | 319.31 | 168.69 | 150.62 | 5.28 | 267 | 166 | 101 | 4.20 | -52.31 | -2.69 | -49.62 | -1.08 | ||||
| AVG | -38.73 | -13.43 | -25.30 | -0.06 | |||||||||||||||||
*game played at "neutral" location
All comments, FanPosts and FanShots reflect only the view of the user creating them.
26 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think you need to take into consideration a few things...
One, Arthur Brown makes up for a lot of that improvement in the run game. So does the ascension of Tre Walker and the exceptional tackling ability of our corners (Garrett, Chapman, Malone). Also, Ray Kibble showed a significant amount of improvement from 2010 to 2011, so that helped with the run defense as well.
From a pass defense perspective, we have little pass rush due to smallish DE’s and a soft coverage/limited blitzing scheme.
Honestly, people can examine the numbers, but this defense is a Chris Cosh defense; limited pressure, heavy zone, and hope the other team makes a mistake before they score. His defenses always have horrible numbers because his entire career has been predicated on keeping the score down more than the yards.
If you like that style, he’s your guy. If you don’t like that style, he’ll never be your guy. And the bad part is that he’ll run that defense even if he doesn’t have the personnel for it (see last year).
Bring on the Cats - Our Site
@PJ_BOTC - My Twitter
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Any chance Vic Koenning is interested in returning and repairing the damage?
How’s about Vic and KSU give each other a second chance…
Anyway, Pan is definitely right: the ongoing troubles in our pass-defense remain largely a byproduct of a bend-but-don’t-break mentality. That worked well in 2009 when we had very little talent, but I believe the talent this year (with the additions of Malone and Arthur Brown and the return of David Garrett and a year’s growth in Tre Walker) is better than two years ago. My recollection was Cosh had the same issues at Maryland.
Pan pretty much sums it up...
numbers can be crunched in ways to show almost any point, but Cosh simply runs a passive defense. If he has good players it is better then when he doesn’t. Aside from the fact that I HATE a passive defense (and let me qualify that hate to college / professional football as I run a passive defense in junior football simply because the other team is very likely to make a mistake), my problem is the lack of improvement of funementals for the players.
Now I understand that by the time you get to college you should have solid fundementals, but today more than ever they simply are not taught in high shcool (trust me on this – no time for fundementals at all…high school coaches are too busy putting in fancy plays, etc. rather than have the most fundementally sound team in the state).
Solid fundementals would have an impact…
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Dec 6, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree that numbers can be crunched in any way to show any point.
They, can, however, be presented in any way to show a point.
Which is why I tried to show as much of the raw data as possible. I tried to condense it for easy consumption, but honestly, I wasn’t trying to make an argument one way or another, I was just kind of throwing the numbers out there for everyone else to look at. I did provide some analysis, but it is pretty sparing, mainly because I had trouble finding any narrative.
Numbers can be very informative, if you can figure out what they mean exactly. Which is why I went through this process, to let everyone here (and I know there are some people here that are much more stat analysis savvy than myself) maybe draw some information from this.
When Pan posted, I hadn’t finished my post yet (I accidentally published early) so I think he thought I was making an argument to keep Cosh. Regardless, I don’t think this was a pointless exercise and personally found it to be informative.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 6, 2011 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
You did yeoman's work here, Chris
Good stuff. I found a lot of it to be informative, too. Because a lot of us view this through a schematic lens (and perhaps emotionally after screaming at the TV at times on many a Saturday) we’re quick to jump on the topic rather than dissecting the data (as in my case).
Thanks for the kind words.
I was mainly taking issue with the “numbers can be crunched in ways to show almost any point” line.
I just was looking for some more concrete evidence to prove why Cosh needed to go. What I found was much more muddied than expected. Perhaps Anon’s analysis still works best, that Cosh can coach good but not great defenses.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 7, 2011 6:17 AM CST up reply actions
Does anyone actually understand Bill's numbers? I think those would be a great way to compare the teams, but I haven't the faintest idea what any of them mean!
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2011
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
With more time to look at Bill C's stats, this is what I find -
2011 – 65th
2010 – 82nd
2009 – 104th
Dammit! The D look to get better! BOOOOOOOOOO!
Anyway, it’s the style more than the substance that drives me nuts. The guys are so passive and seemingly helpless, particularly against the pass. What good team has ever used that style of D?
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
•DFEI: Defensive FEI, the opponent-adjusted efficiency of the given team's defense.
I see we are ranked #22 in DFEI, the difference being the opponent-adjustment to DE for which we were ranked 65. I think that’s what ChrisP was trying to get to in his second chart. If you adjust the defensive stats to take into allow the opponent’s relative offensive strength, we were the 22nd best.
we were #102 in DFEI last year
So that is a vast improvement. 2009 is not available yet.
Dammit! You're not supposed to make Cosh look good!
Where’s my banhammer…
Anyway, thanks for pointing that out. I’m a chemical engineer and their math and numbers still make my head hurt.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
I say go.
I said at the conclusion of the year last year that the Total Defense rankings should be between 49th and 60th…he did not accomplish this. These are not Bill Snyder standards…though it was able to help = 10-2, and the defense won us a share of games. Sigh. Maybe we beat the Cowboys with a better defense? But if you could get a quality guy, I say go for him.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
With a round-robin league schedule, I find it very interesting to compare conference rankings
KSU defense is 5th in the B12 in total defense. They’re helped by our offense slowing down the game though – per play they are #6.
The teams above are:
Texas
A&M
Mizzou
OU
Oklahoma St.
then us.
and then ISU is just barely behind in #7.
Baylor and Tech are significantly worse, and then KU is atrocious at #10.
When I look at the talent this defense has and compare it to the other teams, these rankings honestly seem about what you would expect. With the personnel we have, a middle-of-the-pack finish seems about right.
That matches up with previous reviews of Cosh’s ability, where he typically does an OK job but is nothing special.
Our offense, by the way, is #9 (or barely #8 per-play). That is clearly a bigger weakness on our team than the defense. However, you get the impression that they are likely over-achieving with the talent they have. With all due respect to our honey badger, Hubert, linemen, receivers, etc., I’m not sure this team has as much offensive talent as anyone else in the league.
So, bottom line – I’d support getting rid of Cosh if you can point me to who we’d replace him with that’s better than average. There are a lot of those coaches out there, but the question is how many are willing to come to KSU and work under Snyder.
If your argument is that anyone would be better than Cosh, then I’d disagree with you on that. He’s average.
One thing that some people here really dislike is the passive nature of his defense. I agree that it’s maddening at times – but then so was the constant blitzing when that failed as well. Anyone remember a certain game near the end of 1998? I would prefer a more balanced defense, but I’m more concerned about results than style.
OK, I finally finished!
Now everybody who posted even though I wasn’t finished with my analysis, take a second look.
Or not, whatever, I don’t care.
Would you like some Freys with that?
If Cosh can't figure out a way to stop the pass
in pass-first conference…
The reason I’m not a DC is because if I had A. Brown, I would use him to 1) spot the QB on most plays and, 2) get in the QBs face. Especially when facing dual-threat QBs.
If you don’t like to call blitzes, then you better have your players in position to stop the pass completion in coverage. This was a failing too many times this season. I’ll grant that it’s not just the DC’s – the players have to execute too. But, it looked like too many times this year, the players were not in a position to make plays.
If you have co-defensive coordinators, do you have a DC at all (just like the having to starting QBs)?
Well, some of our best defenses came when we had co-coordinators with Leavitt and Stoops.
So it can obviously work.
Really, though, I need to compare these numbers against the “better” defenses in the Big 12. Because although this tells us that we are performing better against teams than most of their opponents this year, it doesn’t tell us if that performance is objectively good.
But that is a whole lot more number crunching, not sure if I want to get into that.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 6, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Problem is back when Leavitt and Stoops were with KSU
offenses were different. You could attack more since they weren’t running the spread and using quick-strike passes to hit your defense in space with their faster skill-position players. Lots of teams back then were still running option plays out of various formations (Nebraska’s power-I, Colorado, Iowa State) and those that began throwing more (OU under Gary Gibbs) relied upon more traditional drop-back passing schemes.
Once Leach got to OU everything changed. The quick horizontal pass was used as an extension of the running game. Defenses faced a choice: get to the QB as quick as possible or make the spread teams earn their way downfield, hoping they would make a mistake along the way. The latter method relied on matching up against each offensive wideout, keeping your safeties back in Cover 2 (or Cover 3 depending), and being a very good tackling defense in space. Cosh has obviously opted for this latter method, largely relying on a four-man rush to get pressure on the QB.
I pretty much agree with rjd27 here. But then a coach has to go with the scheme they think best suits their personnel. Or recruit a specific type of player allowing them to go to a more aggressive scheme.
What does that have to do with co-coordinators?
That reference was pretty much only responding to rjd27’s final question:
If you have co-defensive coordinators, do you have a DC at all (just like the having to starting QBs)?
I was submitting that the fact there are co-coordinators shouldn’t in and of itself mean that the defense will not perform.
It was not in any way meant to be an endorsement of the current situation, nor a comment on defensive philosophy.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 6, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Ah yes, saw that now.
Thanks for pointing that out, Chris. Was just skimming through, my bad.
But I stand by one thing: comparing the Leavitt-Stoops defenses to today is not an exact science based on the different offensive tendencies of respective particular periods.
I forgot about Leavitt and Stoops working as co-DCs
Of course, hindsight tells us both were very good at their jobs.
Recruits
But then a coach has to go with the scheme they think best suits their personnel. Or recruit a specific type of player allowing them to go to a more aggressive scheme.
I think that’s the crux right there. Unless K-State can recruit a bunch of A. Brown type defensive players, it’s going to consistently struggle to defend the current passing style. Just not enough defensive backs to cover the wideouts.
Until and unless teams move back to a more balanced approach.
Agreed
For Cosh’ scheme to really work you have to have superior talent in your front four. I like Latui, Kibble, Meshak, Adam Davis and Voelker, but combined they aren’t going to make anybody forget about the defenses at LSU and ’Bama. We went through long stretches this season without a sack from our front four. Not good in the Cosh scheme.
Or you actually teach the kids you have how to do things the right way...
This is what Snyder is legendary for…his attention to detail. He notices everything a player is doing and corrects it every single time. He will approach a running back because he has his hand on the ball at an incorrect angle – by a few degrees. He requires that you do everything the right way because that is a multiplier for less talented player.
Of course the players matter, but have we seen indictions where Cosh has improved the fundementals of his players?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Dec 6, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Certainly not the tackling
nor the deep pass coverage from our safeties who too often seem to fall asleep.
Well, we can't really know but isn't Nigel Malone a candidate for this?
He was a relatively un-recruited JUCO player, so it doesn’t seem likely that he’s getting by on pure talent.
And how about Ralph Guidry, compare him from last year to now.
I’m not saying he’s a great coach, but i see an awful lot of cherry-picking when it comes to talking about Cosh. Every time the defense does well, it’s the players overcoming a bad coach. Every time they fail it’s a bad coach hurting the players.

by 











