K-State Slate: 12.23.11
by TB on Dec 23, 2011 7:18 AM CST
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K-State Basketball
K-State finally made its open shots and rolled to an 83-58 win over Southern Illinois in the Diamond Head Classic. The Wildcats will face the UTEP MIners today at 4:00 p.m. CST in the semifinals. Game thread will be up at 3.
Jamar Samuels flew to Hawai'i separate from the team after attending his grandmother's funeral, then played well off the bench against Southern Illinois.
First thing's first and all, but Long Beach State knocked off Xavier on the other side of the Diamond Head bracket, ruining K-State's chance for an RPI-boosting game with the Musketeers in the championship game. But I'm starting to think that a win over at team like LBSU could carry a decent amount of weight by the end of the season.
Meeks sees the possibility for a power shift in Big 12 basketball this winter. With Missouri and Baylor looking like the favorites at this point, I'd say that's entirely possible.
The Wildcats are knocking on the door and finding their way onto radar screens with their 8-1 record.
Big 12 Basketball
It was a real mixed bag for the Big 12 yesterday. On the good side, Missouri got a 78-74 win over Illinois in the Some Cheap Domestic Beer Braggin' Rights game. KU beat a horrendous USC team, 63-47 (after leading 25-13 at halftime).
On the bad side, Texas Tech got worked by Oral Roberts in a 72-56 loss, and Texas A&M lost at home to Rice, 65-58. Yes, Rice. The Owls.
Other Stuff
Matt Ufford over at the mothership has an excellent piece on the five laziest accusations in sports commentary, and what they mean. Good stuff to keep in mind.
Terrible news here. Texas A&M offensive lineman Joe Villavisencio died in a car crash yesterday.
If Texas is the Joneses, then what is K-State, the school that beats the Joneses in everything?
It was a big day for KU football and pulling in transfer quarterbacks. First it was Notre Dame's Dayne Crist, who will rejoin Charlie Weis, then it was Jake Heaps, who will leave BYU and should have two years of eligibility after sitting out next year.
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Yesterday's game was a great thing to see.
It showed what this team can do when making shots. Even with 19 turnovers, the team still got to 80 points against a decent defense. And how sweet were those dunks by JO? I watched the first half on DVR after the game was over, because I was at work until halftime. The alleyoop from Angel was probably my second favorite JO play ever (my favorite remains a more authoritative version of his first dunk from the game: starting at the corner of the lane, single dribble and taking it all the way to the hoop).
On the tv broadcast
i think they said KSU was the first team to break 70 on SIU. Thats pretty good, though I’m not sure of the level of competition that SIU has played thus far
First team to break 65, actually.
But SIU hadn’t played anyone really good yet. Their best previous opponents are probably St. Louis and Western Kentucky.
Oklahoma. Oddly, that's OU's only loss.
Although Oklahoma hasn’t exactly played any worldbeaters yet.
Yeah, I remember now
I looked up all the big 12 teams’ schedules yesterday when I did my early rankings…part of the reason I put them down so low
You obviously aren't an Arkansas Razorback fan.
To listen to the Arkie fans down here and to read some of their blog comments, OU was just very lucky to catch Arkansas on a down night. For some odd reason, which has to do with delusional visions of grandeur, all of them think Anderson is going to take them back to the final four within four years or less.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
And it is nice to see JO finally using his freak size and length
no way that kid shouldnt have two or three monster jams a game, and should be consistently in double figures on points and boards.
And another plus for JO, he’s maintaing his 2 block-a-game average…so he doing that pretty well too
Even in games he hardly shows up for, JO can get 2 blocks.
He notched 3 against West Virginia (matching both his scoring and rebounding totals for the game). And against North Florida, he had 2 blocks in 3 minutes.
And he should, he's got the size and length to do it
but it’s that consistency we’ve been looking for, he consistently is getting those blocked shots, and probably more that they don’t credit him in forced bad shots and blocks called as fouls. It’s a good step, we just need to see that consistency spread into other parts of his game…I would prefer rebounding first
I agree 100 percent.
I started writing about how great it would be if he could play with some consistency and without the mistakes that keep him from getting much more than 20 minutes a game, but then I decided to keep it short. He has all the tools to be a 16/10/4 player in college. And I want him to become that so badly.
He had several blocks taken away by the on ball defender drawing a foul
Not his fault, but you’d think those guys would realize who’s back there protecting the rim!
That's one of my biggest pet peeves ...
One of the foundations of our defense is that the bigs come over to protect the rim. The guy getting beat knows this and yet so many times we still foul.
But our style of D is so physically hard to execute. I try to keep that in mind.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
You can see the variation from game to game in the way the refs handle calls
but the on ball defenders really need to keep their hands down and just try to keep the defender from getting off a “comfortable” shot in the lane.
"...the foundations of our defense is that the bigs come over to protect the rim."
Except, of course, when an off-ball defender is over-playing at free throw line extended so much that a third grader could torch them on the back door cut – and it happens so fast that the big has no time to get over to help.
Sigh. I’m sure Frank has a reason for this. But I’m getting tired of seeing it, especially as much as UTEP did it during their 17-4 run in the second half. It will be hard to beat top tier, well coached teams (consistently) with that defense.
oh hail the Purple and White
Well, get used to it, because that's what we'll be doing for a long, long time.
I agree, it’s hard to watch … because it’s nearly impossible to execute to the point where you don’t get beat for plenty of layups, dunks, and open threes.
But we obviously put our stock into dictating to the offense that they will not run their offense. They will either beat us one-on-one and get to the rack before the bigs can help or they will lose.
But the track record of KSU under Frank is that the team gets better and better with that D as the season goes along. And we beat a ton of ranked teams.
For the record, I’ve always called it Frank’s “kamikaze D” … not in an endearing way. It is crazy hard for the players to execute.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 24, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Your observations are on the mark
my problem is, when the other team obviously has the personel to execute the back door cut consistently (think 0-3 against frickin Colorado last year) or is really well coached (and Tim Floyd is a lot of negative things, but he’s a damn good Xs & Os coach), we are GOING TO GET BEAT, as in defeated. You get to the Sweet Sixteen level, and that defensive philosophy won’t work. No way.
Last night’s sequece when UTEP went on its 17-4 run had me pulling my hair out because FRANK would not make the adjustments necessary to stop the run. Our kids therefore started playing tight, without poise. If Angel doesn’t hit that 3 pointer (which, if you nodticed, came in the “flow”, so there wasn’t time to pucker up and panic) we probably lose that game.
oh hail the Purple and White
One of my concerns is that...
…if you look at the elite coaches, they have the ability and the willingness to adjust what they do when necessary. Pressuring the ball and overplaying the passing lanes on defense does a lot of good things, but no system is perfect for every situation. We saw it against Colorado last year, and we’ve seen it in the past when we’d pressure Dogus Balbay for Texas, who couldn’t throw the ball in the hoop unguarded from two feet away. Sometimes you have to back off.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 25, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
That Ufford article is such a great writeup
it’s the same kind of thing you get to hear from the shouting talking heads on TWWL on a regular basis (i.e. Skip Bayless). It’s one thing we haven’t had too much of a problem with on this board, at least from the regulars. That’s been a big reason I became a regular, because of all the passionate, yet fully informed discourse we usually partake in. It’s nice to see our wonderful education (at the best school in the state of Kansas) has really paid off. Go Cats!
I'm REALLY hoping the Cats win this tourney
I know they won’t be taking on any big name teams but it would the Cats first tourney win in way too long, and with Xavier out of the way, there are no excuses.
I would root for KU and even Douche-bag-Drew to win the conference over a traitorous Missouri team. How about you?
“They toss around simplistic, derivative epithets to stoke an angry fire in fans. It is intellectual gruel, a slurry of opinion intended to provoke rather than inform.”
http://theclassical.org/articles/sick-in-the-head – a link from the Ufford article, well worth a read.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
A trophy in the case is always good
and a win would also improve team confidence going into the slugfest that is the opening conference slate
for some reason i don't have a problem with mizzou winning the conf title on the way out
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I wouldn't mind it too much, as long as they don't share it with Kansas.
And Haith needs to make as much of this year as he can. In yesterday’s game, Mizzou only played seven players against Illinois. Six of them were seniors, including all five starters. Haith is set up for a big second-year swoon, with only Flip returning with any real experience.
This i can't agree with.
I hate Missouri and if they’re leaving then us as a league should make sure they don’t take it with them. Just my opinion of course.
Ok, so .... time to reevaluate Texas A&M ...
I haven’t seen enough to know why they aren’t very good … but they clearly aren’t very good. They must have chemistry issues under the new coaching staff. Maybe they work out of it as the season goes on, but that’s going to be a rough go trying to do that in conference play.
Another team KSU has no reason not to sweep.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 8:24 AM CST reply actions
aTm struggling isn't a huge surprise to me.
In the same way that Maryland is struggling, Turgeon has a system and players catered to that system. Kennedy inherited a lot of guys who probably aren’t great for what he’d like to run. Not to say they aren’t talented, but the whole was greater than the sum of the parts and now it’s just the largely mediocre parts.
Yeah, I just thought they had enough talent to overcome it ...
to be middle-of-the-pack in the conference this year. It’s looking like they’ll be fighting in the OSU-ISU lower tier of the conference now, which is vastly above Texas Tech but below everyone else.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
How about the DERP by the coaches to pick the favorite entering the season?
Really, THAT many people thought a solid but not great team with a new coach would WIN the league? Please.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Great contribution by Jamar, under the circumstances.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 8:26 AM CST reply actions
Yeah, I'm super proud of that kid
and I promise not to say anything bad about him until conference play starts
Haha.
You’ll have to limit participation live game threads then.
Agreed re: Jamar. He really played well especially given the circumstances. As long as he shows up with energy and aggressiveness he’s going to have a very good year.
Watched a decent amount of the ku/USC game ...
Wow … I could not believe my eyes how absolutely horrible that USC team was. They honestly had nothing. How U-S-freakin’-C could become that toothless of a basketball team, I have no idea. What on earth …
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 8:29 AM CST reply actions
The Pac-12 is embarrassing in basketball this year.
Probably a two tourney team conference. Utah lost to Weber St by 29 points yesterday!
It's unbelievable what has been happening in that conference the last few years.
Even the good coaches in the conference can’t get their shit together.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
There's a reason their conference presidents killed the acquisition of the Big 12 South...
They are sitting on piles of money while being horrible in the money sports. Why bring in teams that have, historically, been pretty good at both?
Bring on the Cats - Our Site
@PJ_BOTC - My Twitter
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
I argued Pitt State would beat them at RCT
I stand behind that statement. KU had one of the worst halfs offensively you’ll ever see from us, scored a measely 25 points… and lead by 12.
Just think, a few years ago this team had Mayo and was a top 5 seed in the tournament. And then lost to… you guys right?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
I agree on all points ...
and yes, that was Beasley/Walker vs Mayo/Taj Gibson in the first round in Omaha (iirc).
USC was slightly overseeded and KSU was slightly underseeded … I actually think it was a 6-11 game. What was funny was when the pairing was announced. USC was one of the teams that was on live and you could see the “Oh shit” reaction when the USC/KSU pairing came up.
Then we got drubbed by Wisconsin in the second round. That KSU team with those guards had no chance against Wisconsin’s style and execution.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
I forgot about the Wisconsin game (which I shouldn't have, since my folks are alums)
KSU was in KU’s bracket then, because Wisconsin then got killed (and I mean killed, it was shocking) by Davidson, before Davidson played us. I was all ready for a Clark Family War, Wisconsin vs. Kansas too.
I do remember a lot of people picking USC to be a sleeper team and make a deep run, including a lot of experts (who had them beating KU in the sweet 16 despite the fact KU beat USC, in LA, without Brandon Rush earlier in the year) and KSU won fairly handidly.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Dec 23, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
KSU couldn't match up with Wisconsin that year ...
God Bless those guards, but they were holding the team back pretty much the entire year. I’ll probably take some heat for posting that. At least they picked the ku game in MHK for their best game of the year as a backcourt.
Against Wisconsin, KSU bricked open jumper after open jumper … which was what Wisconsin was planning on giving up all night while suffocating Beasley.
I remember being surprised at the time that Davidson just killed Wisconsin, but I thought they had a good shot at beating them. Curry was such a special college player at lead guard.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't watch the game (wrong country, and actually I never saw a minute of Beasley for KSU live)
But that was the game where I knew Martin would be a solid coach. A babysitter doesn’t beat Mayo and that USC team.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Hell, KSU beat almost an NBA team
Two first round picks, and we found out later they were already getting paid :)
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly!
Yeah, I remember the hype about that USC team making a deep run. It was delicious to see that prediction flop. And then KSU ran into their nemesis. Damned you Wisky!
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
LBSU ...
A pretty mentally tough team with a lot of moxie and a lot of athletic ability. They also make a ton of stupid mistakes and take a lot of bad shots. But they play hard and they definitely aren’t intimidated by anyone.
Should go without saying that we really need to win this tournament now. UTEP isn’t an RPI loss we can take. And, frankly, we don’t want an LBSU loss on our resume either, because while they are playing a lot of big boys tough, imo they don’t have the makeup of a team that will go and dominate their conference. I think they’ll probably end up with at least a few conference losses (each of which will have a good chance of being a “bad” loss).
Hope the guys handle their business. This could launch a really good season.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 8:40 AM CST reply actions
As long as Charlie Weis is their coach
I have not a worry in the world.
His offenses are still good, even as terrible as his defenses have been
Im only concerned that the Cats may only win by 14-21 points, instead of 28-35 points
His offenses are okay
but nothing great (just ask Florida). He runs a pro-style at the college level and has no grasp of the obvious that offense and defense need to complement each other.
Weis’ QB tutoring skills are good; his offensive acumen a bit overrated. He’s the college version of Norv Turner – a good, even very good, QB guru; an okay offensive coordinator; an unmitigated disaster as head coach. That trend will continue at KU, his excuse-making “ND was just a bad situation, give Charlie a second chance” cheerleaders notwithstanding.
to be fair
he was facing (arguably) better defense in the SEC than he will face on a regular basis in the Big 12.
I dont want him to be truly successful at KU, I like another “cupcake” on the schedule every year, I’m just saying don’t be surprised if they are “average” instead of terrible
I can see that because he will bring improved QB play
but not much beyond the ‘average’ bit. And by average I mean 5-7 overall; 2-7 in Big-12 play.
Also, while he was facing great D’s in the SEC, he also was coaching Florida with their stable of 5- and 4-star athletes. No excuses for him there. He stunk. In a New Jersey cesspool type of way.
by CT-K-Stater on Dec 23, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
It still depends a lot on the quality of his staff.
Good coordinators can make a big difference. I move we help him out and give him Chris Cosh to get him started with the defense on the right foot.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
by ArkieCat on Dec 23, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
develop the qb well but am not sure it'll be enough to overcome the rest of
Their shortcomings…comparable to Seth doege and Texas tech
"Nor yet in Dell?"
So they can split getting sacked 50 times next year.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
Yup
And watch their D give up 50 points per game.
Unless Tim Grunhard can figure out a way to make their line better
there are some decent athletes on that squad, but poor coaching has led them down the road of mediocrity
Unless Weis switches up his philosphies altogether ...
they’ll be running a pro-style offense. At a football program like ku, that is doom. The only thing dumber than that at a non-elite program is a 3-4 defense (which ku was dumb enough to try after watching Prince go down in flames).
If Weiss can hire assistants that are awesome enough to assemble the kind of breadth of talent it will take for a pro-style offense to really succeed in the long run at ku … well, I’ll believe it when I see it.
Only thing I don’t like about this whole situation is that it’s starting to smell a lot like they really are waiting for Leavitt to get done at SF this year before naming him DC and head-coach-in-waiting.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
First, I dont think Leavitt takes that job
especially if Coach asks him not to (so he can come here!).
Second, there is no reason that an average West-Coast offense can’t be successful in the current Big 12. It relies on a solid short-to-intermediate passing game to set up runs. KU will now have a QB capable of making those throws on a consistent basis, and when you combine that with their stable of decent RB’s you can start to see where they make actually be more than mediocre on offense. What is going to be most important for Wies is the staff he assembles, which seems to be decent so far. For example, Grunhard brings respectability back to their O-Line, and brings an “in” with Kansas (and KC-area) coaches for recruiting.
While I don’t expect KU to be the next star of the league, or approach their success of 2007, I do expect they will give everyone fits, and can easily manage to win 6 games. Just remember how close they were in several games this year, that with a better staff and a few better players, they could have won.
I hate KU as much as the next guy around here, but I honestly see them as an improved team next year, and for the next several years.
Obviously, I would be loved to be proven wrong in this case
I meant to add in there
that a West-Coast system can be competitive against some of the defenses scattered throughout this conference…even ours :-( #Cosh4anywherebuthere
I could coach the team and they'd be more successful next year ...
To more accurately define my opinion of how Weis at ku is going to play out:
Yes, I think they will have at least a decent offense. I think they’ll score some points and be at least respectable. I don’t think they’ll ever have a great offense under Weis (that is clearly an opinion on which I’m out on a limb), but probably a couple of solid ones. I doubt they’ll be able to run the ball all that effectively, on the whole, since they won’t use the QB.
Best case for ku on offense in the short term: They get Josh Freeman and Jordy Nelson and score some real points, like Prince did. I’m betting it doesn’t happen. But they’ll be infinitely better than they were under Gill.
All I really cared about was that they didn’t get Leach. Everything else is gravy.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
" probably a couple of solid ones ..."
I should clarify that I don’t really expect Weis to be there more than 3 years.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
They ran the ball effectively last season
with poor o-line play and a bad QB. I would think, if they are less one-dimensional, they could be decently effective.
Of course, it’s all just wait-and-see at this point. The spring game should provide a clearer picture of what that team could look like next year
My issue with that is that ku wasn't running a pro-style offense ...
But you’re right, we’ll see soon enough. I’m just so happy KSU isn’t going down the “QB either passes or hands it off” road. It’s like going out there with one arm tied behind your back, especially for schools like ku and KSU.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
that was pretty much the RP offense
and it wasnt terrible, though he did have an NFL QB running it. Those teams just lacked anything resembling a defense
Right, like I mentioned in another post ...
Go get Josh Freeman and Jordy Nelson and you can get after it like that.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Not out on a limb, I-n-S
I’m with you that I don’t think the Jayhawk offense ever becomes anything to rave about. I have no idea where the idea that Weis is some kind of offensive whiz-kid came from (and please, don’t reference his time at KC as a mirror for KU). I think he will make the O respectable, even decent, but nothing to make us forget Okie State’s, for instance. KU could run it last season and I don’t see that changing. The passing game will improve, but will have to make leaps in order for KU to get to .500 or above.
And further, while everyone rips on Turner Gill (appropriately), the guy won at the collegiate level turning around an abysmal Buffalo program. For all the laughs pointed in Gill’s direction, I’m not convinced Weis is much better as a head coach. Dude went 3-9 at Notre Dame with an incredibly easy schedule. And lost a game to a Greg Robinson-coached Syracuse team with a 13-point lead in the 4th quarter. At home. On Senior Day. With a bowl game on the line.
Let me repeat that for those still think Weis is some kind of magician: He lost a game to a Greg Robinson-coached Syracuse team. Case closed.
by CT-K-Stater on Dec 23, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
I dont think he's a magician
and he is OBVIOUSLY more suited for the NFL, I just see potential for KU to be better under Weis than Gill. Gill was a good coach at a lower level (and shoudl have stayed there), but they expected too much from him. Weis sucked at a higher level, but I don’t see them expecting as much out of him at KU, which should make his job easier.
I will consider him a success there if they can win 5 games next year, and 6 the year after.
People also forget that Gill had only one truly good year at Buffalo, and that was two years before KU hired him. His last year at Buffalo was mediocre at best…
Something to think about
Pro level players are the 90th percentile and possibly 99th percentile of college players. If your college offense needs this caliber of player to succeed, then good luck because no college team has this level of talent at every position.
Weiss had success as a high school coach, so at one point he knew how to develop players to win. But as shown at ND and UF, he isn’t adjusting from Pro to College levels very well. Will KU be the place where he is able to implement his “schematic advantage”, we shall see.
If it takes longer than 2 years then KU Alum will get nervous since the 2007 season have them thinking that every year they should be like that.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Dec 23, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Agree Gill only had one great year at Buffalo
But that program was not in the weeds, it was buried below the cracked asphalt. Gill did a tremendous job there, although as you correctly point out his last year there wasn’t awe-inspiring.
KU might very well be better under Weis; in fact, I’d be shocked if they weren’t 1-2 wins better on average (let’s face it, the bar ain’t exactly high right now). That, of course, will depend on if Jersey Charlie was able to absorb the lessons from his first coaching gig into that dopey head of his, plus whether Crist and Heaps provide tremendously – not marginal, tremendously – improved QB play. I’m not holding my breath if I’m a KU fan. This will end in tears, much like Crist’s Notre Shame career.
Lately, the Big 12 basketball race has started to feel like a North Korean election. Same outcome every year, no changes at the top.
Bill Self once made 11 holes in one in a single round of golf!
by xrayxtals on Dec 23, 2011 10:01 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
So to link this from kusports
but its interesting to think about, where is Brock Berglund’s future?
He was a three-star dual-threat QB, and is supposed to be good despite his off-the-field problems. Does HCBS take a shot at him? Does he even need to?
Just thought I’d throw this up and see what everyone else thinks about that…especially QB Analyst Pan
I would consider wanting to pick him up
If he didn’t have those off-field issues, wasn’t he charged with rape or something? We still are a little short on QB’s for Sams sophmore year.
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Yeah but he'll be a redshirt freshman
And unless we got a juco QB were looking at for next year, we need some more depth at that position to challenge Sams.
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
On Berglund
Basically, I argued that he may very well want to transfer, as Weis has shown he can easily get top level talent at QB (two in one day, next three years likely wrapped up).
However, as you mentioned, he has quite a bit of baggage. For starters, he had legal trouble stemming from a fight, got a charge for punching someone (at a movie theatre I think).
It isn’t really just the legal crap though. He was flimsy about coming to practice, and apparently really rubbed his teammates the wrong way when he showed up and didn’t get along with a lot of guys.
It is funny that he has gone from KU’s QB of the future (and we flipped out when all his drama started) to their possible fourth stringer next year (I think Cummings is a better prospect because he is such a good runner).
Another thing to keep in mind: I believe Berglund’s rivals ranking was a 5.7. The immortal Jordan Webb was rated a 5.6. Obviously you can put as little or as much stock in those rankings as you’d like and have a good argument either way, but it is something to consider. As much as it pains me to say it, I think KSU could do better. Especially with the monster season Klien just had.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know how much you see of this site, but at least one of us (Pan) is convinced KSU has done VASTLY better with Sams
I’d never object to a player coming here with Snyder as the head coach because I think his style will humble anyone and everyone, or you’ll never hear from them again (like Bryce Brown). If he’s a good athlete, make a him a DB or WR. I can’t imagine he would want to do that though.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Agreed, I'm open to anyone that is willing to put forth the effort
yeah, we got QB basically locked up for four years (Klien,1; Sams, 3), but that doesn’t mean we don’t need competition or quality back-ups in case of injury
Sams is absolutely perfect for what we want to do. Perfect.
He may not be perfect for other teams, but he’s perfect for us.
He’s Ell Roberson with better speed and a stronger, more accurate arm.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
I think I just fainted
But can’t remember.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
Reposting because it's that good...
Here are second half of the season highlights from Sams Senior year.
Look at the black and white clip at 1:04. I mean, I don’t even….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWRCTaCDZYI
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
He was recruited by Miami to be a WR. He's got speed to burn.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Sams played in the New Orleans area, I believe
No need to worry about the quality of competition he faced in high school.
I hope the kid has patience ...
but we really should find ways to work him into series at QB for change of pace next year. And buying time to cauterize Klein’s wounds before throwing him back on the field.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
If we can work some of these new linemen in next year, and Klein's throwing improves...
I think we’ll have enough garbage time in some of our games to see him work some magic.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Um...
Where did number 14 end up? I hope we’re going after Matt Lipham, cause I don’t want to play him. Ever.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
He looks like a man among boys out there
regardless of which position he is playing. I’m salivating for the time when he is at the helm for the Cats.
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Dec 23, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
You really should write a post about our current QBs
It would be a very interesting read and would earn an auto recommend from me
by EMAW 4 Ever on Dec 24, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
He's got Ell's swagger, too.
Another thing to note on Sams…
After he came to camp last year, where Snyder and those guys put him through about 2000 reps (or so he said), they said they wouldn’t recruit another prep QB in that class if he committed.
If Snyder is willing to put all of his eggs in one QB’s basket after testing him out that much, and he determines that’s the only guy he needs, what do you think that says about Sams and what the staff thinks he’s capable of?
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
WR and QB and Wildcat? Yeah, I'll take that!
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
Make no mistake, I'm not arguing with you, I'm pointing out that you're very optimistic we're set at QB for a long time (in college football years)
I dearly hope you’re right! It sounds fantastic.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
BOYCOTT ESPN!
FWIW, ESPN (who, IMO, has a MUCH better rating system) ranked them thusly
Berglund: 4-star, 79 rating, 13th in his position – second best rated recruit for KU in 2011, a decent class
Webb: 3-star, 76 rating, 43rd in his position – 9th best rated recruit in 09, Mangino’s last year and a weak class
Pretty different, if you ask me… and of course Klien was #21 in his position by rivals, a 3-star, in both services, 75 rating on ESPN, and 7th best recruit in a class by RP, where 3 players above him didnt even make it to campus, 1 Snyder ran off, and two are backups behind players Snyder brought in or recruited later…so, just a lesson on taking recruiting ratings with a HUGE grain of salt
God, I shouldnt have looked at K-State's '08 class
I almost started crying it was so bad… Only players who panned out: Klien, Banks, Weibert, Wilson, Tannahill, Douglas, Cooper(greyshirted)/Quarles/Hilburn/Childs & Dold(changed positions/Slaughter/Felder (sorta).
There were so many of those guys that Snyder ran off when he got here, or never even made it to campus…
Of that ‘08 team, that ideally would be the bulk of our seniors/RS junior this year, there are 8 of that squad that were still on the team this year, and only 4 were starters. That’s pretty terrible……
We're more than fine at QB. At this point, we're set for at least five years. We don't need Berglund.
Sams and Bender are more than sufficient, and because of Klein’s gaudy numbers, we’re getting some good mentions for 2013 QBs.
It’s kind of like the Twilight Zone.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
From what i've heard about him
He is not the kind of kid (personality wise) that we would want around our program
by EMAW 4 Ever (iphone) on Dec 23, 2011 11:43 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Not sure thats right
by EMAW 4 Ever (iphone) on Dec 23, 2011 12:59 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It is
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 23, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
KU will need a backup QB for 3 years
FWIW.
Hail to the Purple, Hail to the White
Wildcat in spirit, Wildcat in fight
Hail Alma Mater from sea to sea
Onward forever, Hail Victory!
Sams next year Bender after sams gets going
by EMAW 4 Ever (iphone) on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
If Sams is as good as we all think/hope, then Bender won't be playing QB.
He’s too good of an athlete to waste as a backup QB for three seasons and only have one year as a starter. Unless Sams leaves early…
#gettingwayaheadofourselves
He's a less talented version (slightly) than Tate Forcier. Same level of stupidity, though.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
well that solves it
we didnt need Tate and his B.S., so we really dont need a lesser talent with same B.S….
As I was looking through past recruiting classes I came upon the realization that
Ty Zimmerman is a draft-eligible true sophomore… The rules for the NFL draft are based on years removed from your HS graduating class, not years in college. You have to be three years removed, which Ty is at the end of this year (Greyshirt year, freshman year, sophomore year). Not that he is going to the draft, but I thought that was rather interesting…
You want me to ask his girlfriend if he has made any comments about entering the draft before he has exhausted his eligibility>
aka - Hell Dancing
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Dec 23, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
I see him as kind of a Jon McGraw type
He’s good but not great
by EMAW 4 Ever (iphone) on Dec 23, 2011 1:01 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think most players would take that.
McGraw is still getting paid to play football professionally. And if he isn’t starting for KC, he’s getting a lot of playing time, at least.
He's been the starter since Eric Berry tore his ACL in the first game
and has made some great plays over the course of the year. Made a tackle that helped preserve the Indy win, and had an INT of Rodgers (I think)
Interesting game tonight ... WV vs Baylor in Vegas ...
WV pulled another one out yesterday against a game Missouri State. WV is Rasputin … better put a few bullets, some poison, and some more bullets into that bitch before you assume its dead.
Baylor with a solid neutral court win over St. Mary’s. Baylor is starting to turn the corner a little in my eyes. Today is a big day for them.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 2:06 PM CST reply actions
SIU has a good start going against Clemson ...
Up by 3 with 6 minutes or so left in the first half.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Dec 23, 2011 2:38 PM CST reply actions
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