K-State Slate: 11.28.11
by TB on Nov 28, 2011 6:51 AM CST
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K-State Football
It's interesting that so much focus is being placed on K-State's improvement against the run on defense, when the passing statistics are nearly as bad as the rushing statistics were last season.
K-State remains No. 11 in the BCS rankings. Notably, Michigan's win over Ohio State did not push the Wolverines into the BCS top 14, where they would need to be for at-large consideration. It's possible the Wolverines could move into the top 14 after the SEC and Big 10 championship games next weekend, but it's not guaranteed. The most important game for K-State fans is probably the C-USA championship game. If Houston loses at home to Southern Miss, the Cougars will plummet from at-large consideration, which could open up a spot for K-State. Of course, all of that is a moot point if K-State doesn't beat Iowa State in Manhattan next Saturday.
Big 12 Football
KU fired Turner Gill yesterday. KU still owes Gill $6 million, and it's entirely possible that it will be paying three football coaches (Mark Mangino, Gill and whomever they hire) and two athletic directors (Lew Perkins and Sheahon Zenger) next season. I guess we know what KU will be doing with its buyout money from Missouri and Texas A&M.
During KU's coaching search, keep in mind that it's not only who's available, it's also who is hiring. As of right now, KU will be competing with Illinois, Penn State, UAB, Memphis and Washington State. It's very possible that Ohio State, Arizona State and UCLA will also be looking for replacements, and there are rumors that Texas A&M may can Mike Sherman. That's a lot of competition for a cash-strapped basketball school.
Word leaked last night that there was a flight en route from the Florida Keys, which is where Mike Leach lives, and Lawrence. Media actually showed up at the Lawrence airport, hair care and tire center, only to find that Leach was not aboard the flight. Welcome to modern media coverage of coaching searches.
K-State Volleyball
K-State earned an at-large berth in the NCAA volleyball tournament. The Wildcats will play on familiar territory at the NU Coliseum in Lincoln, Neb., and will face in-state foe Wichita State this Thursday. If the Wildcats beat Wichita State, they will most likely face Big 10 champion Nebraska in the second round. Big congrats to coach Suzie Fritz for getting her team back in the NCAA tournament.
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Am I wrong
or should the big 10 only get one team in the BCS? The conference is just not that strong this year. No top 12 teams. The big 12 has 3 teams higher than any big 10 team. I realize the BCS is a known failure, but if the big 12 only gets one of those 3 teams in and the big 10 gets 2 in, something should really be changed.
Bitchslapping Texas since 1997
What I meant is...if Georgia and the big 10 loser jumps Michigan to 14, they will get 2
Bitchslapping Texas since 1997
Agreed...
Not to mention the Big 12 currently has 7 (8 if you count Missouri and I don’t) teams ranked in the BCS top 25. Yeah…our league clearly sucks in football…(sarcasm)
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 8:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
We have 6 teams in the BCS top 25
and that includes Missouri…
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
I was also counting TCU and WVU.
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 8:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
nope.
The mascot of my alma mater is the Kohawk
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 8:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
What's a friggin Kohawk?
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
a mythical hawk derived from
The native American word for “together” not a real animal.
by Kohawk84 on Nov 29, 2011 7:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Or..
“A” native American word for together I mean as there are hundreds of Native American languages…my bad. Mascot of Coe College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Kind of stupid I admit but in now way related to the blue chicken of Lawrence…
by Kohawk84 on Nov 29, 2011 8:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sponsored by Quaker Oats I suppose?
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
Gill
This is what it must have felt for KU and MU when Prince was let go….
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
A sadness mixed with melancholy?
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Replacements for Gill
I thought I saw a comment about this somewhere already, but maybe not.
They have set their sights pretty high in terms of who they are looking at…
Mike Leach, Jim Leavitt, Manny Diaz, Brent Venables, Dana Dimel, Mark Stoops…
Maybe I’m totally off base about this, but if Venables wasn’t interested in the KSU position, why would he be interested in the KU position?
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Or Leavitt for that matter.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 28, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
The last 2 on the list are the ones I would prefer they hire.
Doubt they have a shot at Leach, Leavitt or Venables.
Diaz would stink, but at least we might still beat Texas.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Venables and Leavitt ... those are jokes as "candidates" ...
Neither would ever consider that job.
Mike Leach shouldn’t ever consider that job … but that is my absolute nightmare and until the phoggie position is philled, I will not feel safe. Words cannot express how bad that hire would be for KSU.
Manny Diaz is probably way too high profile as well. Mark Stoops … maybe they could get that done. And if so, fine by me. ANYONE but Leach.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Could we give them Cosh?
We’ll pay his salary.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
by BlackCats on Nov 28, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Guggisberg wrote a nice little piece, but he's wrong
This defense is as pathetic as last years, but in a different way.
#fireChrisCosh
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Not a big fan of Cosh,
but I disagree that this year’s defense is “as pathetic as last years…” This D has been instrumental in getting us to 9 wins. Last year’s D does not make the stands that this year’s D did against Miami and Baylor.
I for one would like to congratulate the players on the D who have given excellent and courageous effort. The players, IMO, deserve our appreciation and recognition of their fine effort.
oh hail the Purple and White
exactly
The D has improved this year. It is not the best D the Cats have ever had, but it is enough to win games.
All the players on this team have done a good job this year.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with you.
The BIGXII schedule this year was offensive juggernaut after offensive juggernaut (with a couple pathetic O’s sprinkled in) and although I am not a Cosh fan either, anybody who looks at this year’s defense and last year’s defense and think they’re the same isn’t being very objective.
Let's compare statistics -
Points per game allowed -
2010 – 28.3 2011 – 28.5
Yards per game allowed –
2010 – 441 2011 – 401
Interceptions (13 games vs 11 games)
2010 – 13 2011 – 17
Fumbled (13 games vs 11 games)
2010 – 9/16 2011 – 7/15
Anyone who thinks this defense is “better” statistically isn’t being objective. The Cats do have more picks than last year, and they’re much better against the run, but they’re much worse against the pass. And most importantly (and I daresay the only statistic that matters) is points allowed, where the two teams are identical.
Even removing the A&M overtimes, where they scored 19 points (!!), that only brings the average points per game allowed down to 26.8, all of 5% better than last years abortion of a D.
I will grant that this team’s D is more clutch, but that can also be interpreted as luckier, which eventually always runs out (like the OU game for example).
Don’t tell me how much better the D is after holding UT to 13 points either. Last year’s team held UT to all of 14 points, and KU to 7!
Remember, I don’t hold this against the players, I hold it against the coaches, including Snyder. The players and fans deserve better.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
by Sean T on Nov 28, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
dammit, I had that formatted nicely too!
Anyway, I hope you can read the table at the start
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
One key difference is that last year we were #106 in total yards per game
This year we are #76.
So we are a better defense than last year, in relation to the rest of college football.
And in relation to the Big 12, we are a positively stout defense.
- - Iowa State (1game remaining)
- - OSU (1 game remaining)
- - Baylor (1 game remaining)
- - Texas Tech (no games remaining)
- - KU (no games remaining)
So, I think you can say for sure that we are a better defense than last year, when you take into account the murderers row of offense juggernauts that we’ve had to face.
Last year, we only finished ahead of one Big 12 defense, #116 Texas Tech. (KU and Baylor were the next 2 above us at #99 and #98, respectively) I think it is safe to say that losing teams like Colorado and North Texas while adding Tech and Oklahoma should increase your YPG totals. But last year Colorado and North Texas were some of our worst defensive performances. We wouldn’t have those kind of lapses this year.
Don’t take this to be a defense of Cosh, by any means. But this defense IS better than last year’s defense, by any reasonable objective measure. We do still have a lot of problems, but we have improved. Now teams actually have to pass to beat us, whereas last year our pass D looked good because anybody and their crippled, 100 year old grandmother could run against us.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
dammit...
ISU is number 102
OSU is number 107
Baylor is number 114
TT is number 115
KU is number 120
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
This may actually say more about the league than us though
5 of 10 (that’s HALF) of the league’s teams have total defenses in the bottom 20 of college football.
Yucky
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
It could say a couple different things
1. That the Big 12 has a lot of REALLY good offenses that deflate the defensive numbers.
2. That the Big 12 has a lot of REALLY bad defenses that inflate the offensive numbers.
3. Somewhere in-between #1 and #2.
I think it is probably #3, and closer to #1 than #2, but there isn’t a way to prove it one way or another, really.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
You're right that KSU's D isn't awful compared to the rest of the big 12
However, I still don’t understand how you can make the claim the D is better this year when the only stat that truly matters (points allowed per game) is the same. I think the best I can agree to is that the defense has not gotten worse, and that they’re luckier.
No one has ever won a football game allowing fewer yards than the opposition, only fewer points. Ain’t that right Texas?
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
I don't mean to argue
because it is not worth arguing over. But to me, the only stat that matters is win (9-2). What you attribute to luck, I attribute to guts and clutch, courageous play by the kids out on the field.
I just wanted to communicate that I appreciate the effort of the players – the repeated times they have gone out there and made key stops, and not given up. Difference in tone is all.
oh hail the Purple and White
I'm saying that given a more dangerous offensive schedule than what we faced last year.
The defense has improved, even if only marginally.
If we have the 2010 defense playing this exact same schedule, we put up even worse numbers.
If we have anyone other than Chris Cosh as defensive coordinator, we put up better numbers.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with this
I think 2010 defense played this year would actually be a lot worse than where we are right now.
I don’t know. Personally, I think it all starts with a good run defense. If I had to choose one or the other, I think I would take a top 10 run defense (and sub 100 pass defense), than a top 10 pass defense and sub 100 run defense.
At least on passing, the QB still has to deliver a good pass, and the WR still has to catch it (things that might possibly not happen regardless of what the defense is doing) in order to make a play. That’s just me though, and my style of play on NCAA Football would tend to reflect it as well. :)
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Very true on all 3 points
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Sean, just for comparison's sake
look up the numbers for sacks and QB pressures. I’m just curious how they stack up side-by-side. I don’t remember a sack by our defense last year, aside from Brandon Harold’s big one in the last series by Iowa State at Arrowhead. We had zero pressure from our front four last year. Realizing we hadn’t had a sack in weeks until Davis’ against UT, I believe that the greatly improved play of Ray Kibble combined with the insertion of Davis/Meshak at right defensive end and Vai Latui at the other defensive tackle slot makes this a much sounder defense.
Is this year’s D elite? No. Is it remotely close to resembling the old Lynch Mob? Absolutely not. But it is improved IMO. Something to consider is that this year we’ve had to play every Big-12 team, some of whom (Oklahoma and Oklahoma State for starters) are bringing back veteran QB-receiver combos of extremely high quality. Plus, look at where TTU, OSU, Baylor, OU and Mizzou are all ranked nationally in offense. Yes, our deep secondary still suffers from the occasional dozing off to sleep at times, but we also have, what, three or four pick-sixes?
by CT-K-Stater on Nov 28, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Mind if I do it for you?
2011 (with one game remaining)
Sacks – 17 (tied for 89th)
Passes defended – 39 (tied for 43rd)
Interceptions – 17 (tied for 6th)
2010
Sacks – 20 (tied for 86th)
Passes defended – 67 (3rd)
Interceptions – 13 (tied for 49th)
I couldn’t find any statistics for hurries. Interceptions though are often a result of increased pressure.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Also, since you mentioned defensive TDs.
2011
TDs – 3 (tied for 5th)
2010
TDs – 0 (tied for 82nd aka last)
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Interceptions are also a result of Malone having fantastic hands!
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
True, true.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
True, but the addition of Malone in 2011
means another uptick in overall talent for the 2011 vis-a-vis the 2010 squad, agreed?
I don't know
Weren’t we nervous about the CBs the team lost last year? I can’t name them, but Rat wasn’t #1 or #2. Yeah, they didn’t nab picks like Malone does, but they were also on a defense only a fool would try to pass against.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Terence Sweeney and Stephen Harrison, I believe
Let’s put it like this:
2010 CBs: Sweeney and Harrison
versus
2011 CBs: Garrett and Malone.
Edge: 2011
2010 Safeties: Zimmerman and Hartman versus
2011 Safeties: Zimmerman and Hartman
Edge: you could call it a wash, but Sleepy Tysyn Hartman is a tad better than 2011. Still, I’ll give you the wash.
2010 linebackers: Alex Hrbec, Tre Walker, Kadero Terrell, Blake Slaughter, Kevin Rohlder
versus
2011 linebackers: Arthur Brown, Manny Lamur and Tre Walker.
Edge? 2011, hands-down.
2010 defensive line: Antonio Felder, Brandon Harold, Payton Kirk, Ray Kibble, Raphael Guidry
versus
2011 defensive line: Adam Davis, Meshak Williams, Ray Kibble (a much improved Ray Kibble), Jordan Voelker and Vai Latui.
Edge? 2011.
So, at least in my estimation, the talent is better in 2011.
Again, I’m not claiming this unit to be anything like the Lynch Mobs of old, but I’ve seen improvement from last year. Defending the deep pass continues to be an adventure and sometimes the sloppy tackling of 2010 rears its ugly head, but overall I think this D is a bit better.
Of course if they give up 30+ points in a losing effort to ISU, followed by an equally poor bowl showing then feel free to reignite the debate and shove this post in my face.
cfbstats.com is one of the better sites for stats.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
Nice, very nice.
Nothing for hurries, still, but some nice red-zone/3rd down numbers.
2011 (with two remaining games) (this should be changed for all stats above as well, forgot that bowls were included)
3rd down conversion – 57 convs./152 attempts 37.5% (tied for 43rd)
Red-zone conversion – 32 out of 38 attempts 84.21% (81)
Of those: 25 TDs (65.79%) 7 FGs (18.42%)
2010 (with bowl game included)
3rd down conversion – 83 convs./185 attempts 44.86% (105th)
Red-zone conversion – 33 out of 39 attempts 84.62% (tied for 80th)
Of those: 23 TDs (58.97%) 10 FGs (25.64%)
What is startling about this is that the red-zone defense is almost exactly the same, with 2010 actually being a little bit better.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Take a look at other teams vs K-State D like I did in a couple of the polls.
See if the K-State D in 2009, 2010 and 2011 were holding teams under their average or if other teams were using K-State D to pad their numbers.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, that is a good way to view it ...
Without looking (because I am a lazy bastard), I can say I was only truly disappointed in the defensive effort @Tech. I think we should have been able to hold them down more. OU, Baylor, OSU … those are seriously good offensive teams with NFL talent. imo, we just don’t have the horses to really handle them this year. Or most years, for that matter.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Fine.
I’m going to do a fan post about it though.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
hint: the 2011 numbers are already done
look at the best game poll.
Not sure if you can copy the html code or not for the tables, let me know if you want me to email it to you.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Which, in your opinion, is the best game poll? :-)
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
haha
literally the best game poll from last week.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
3rd down was a huge problem last year
on both sides of the ball. I think this is the single most significant improvement.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Yes.
Improved from 45% in 2010 to 37% in 2011.
May not seem like a lot, but that is actually pretty significant.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
We have more talent on the D this year - speed and playmaking ability
But I am not impressed with the defensive scheme, or the execution of the scheme. That is all on Cosh…he must be fired. I will donate money to the cause for goodness sake, just make him go away and find another decent coach. It should not be hard.
Can you really say that Cosh is the right defensive coordinator for a top 15 football program? If it wasn’t for Snyder pulling rabbits out of his hat it would be all over except the crying.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by mac attack ict on Nov 28, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
I completely agree that Cosh should go.
I just think that our defense is demonstrably better this year than last year.
That doesn’t mean that I am supporting Cosh, though.
Unfortunately, I think it probably means that Snyder won’t get rid of Cosh.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
On this line of thinking
We have all seen the season by season defensive numbers for Cosh, and all pretty much agreed that he has never had any GREAT defenses. He has had some GOOD defenses here and there, but nothing on a consistent basis.
It should be apparent by now, that regardless of who we have playing for us on defense, this is what we are always going to get with Cosh as DC.
I agree that I would like to see someone different there next season, but like ChrisP said, I just don’t think that is going to happen.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
yes, he has a thorough enough body of work to objectively grade him against
well said.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
I'm sticking to my pre-season benchmarks of expectations
If Cosh couldn’t get this defense into a Total defense rating of somewhere between 50-59, I see no need to keep him around. I thought given where we left off last year, that was the most reasonable (fair) significant turnaround in a year. Did I see above somewhere that we’re at #76 total defense? Doesn’t meet my criteria, he’s got to go.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Think of it this way ...
If we had hit the 50-59 range, chances are we would have been able to find a way to slow down OSU just enough to win that game and we’d possibly be in line to win the conference title outright with a win this Saturday.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Heck, we may have been able to get a stop or two on OU in the second half
Giving our offense some time to breath and stick to the game-plan.
Not saying we still would have won that game, but we would have had a much better chance.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Behind Michigan :p
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
I agree, but is Snyder using the same criteria?
Also, I think you do have to take into account the new Big 12 schedule and the powerful offenses and QB-WR tandems we’ve had to face this year.
So maybe a revised criterion would be 60-69. He is still outside an adjusted ranking though.
He could still pull it off though if we hold ISU to like 0 total yards.
That would drop his YPG to 367, which would be good for #50 in the current standings.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
no, this is what I set up in the off-season last year
it’s a good point, but I have to assume I figured that into the equation.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
please look up and compare yards per play
last year I think it was somewhere around 5.8 or something. I don’t know what this year’s is, but would like to see it. Also redzone scoring numbers as well, and third down conversions against would be something I’d be interested in seeing.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
cfbstats.com
Yards per play
2010 – 6.4 (!!)
2011 – 5.8
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Likewise, it's not like the offense is leaps and bounds better than last year
to make up for difference in wins compared to last year’s season. There’s no doubt in my mind the defense deserves some sort of credit. There’s no way you get to a point of a potential of winning 11 games in a season with a defense “as pathetic as last years”.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
The defense single-handedly won us the Miami and Baylor games. They did not do so in 2010
For that reason alone, I would argue this defense is better. It’s also in the top half of the B12, which may not be a particularly great accomplishment but it’s a significant step forward.
Is the defense good – no, of course not. But I just don’t see how any objective observer could look at this team and say it’s just as bad. The better offenses on our schedule should have resulted in a 10-20% increase in points given up with the same quality of a defense.
They did not
They held on during the Miami and Baylor games. The offense won the game with 28 and 36 points (with the last three off a beautiful fluke of a pike by Arthur).
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
What I mean is they made the big plays at the end of the game which allowed us a win while the offense was doing absolutely nothing
A goal line stand and an INT + turnover on downs.
No way the 2010 defense could have accomplished that. They never appeared like they even had the potential to do that.
Also, compare the schedules. We basically traded:
North Texas
Nebraska
Colorado
for
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Texas Tech
If our numbers were the same as last year, that would be a big improvement. The fact that we’re 40 ypg and 1+ ppg better (not including OT), is a BIG improvement. Those numbers are likely to improve even further after the ISU game since they are one of the worst offenses we will play this year.
With that schedule change, our numbers would be expected to be about 25% worse, not 10% better
And for anyone who thinks our pass defense last year was good, I point you to the Syracuse game. Their offense was terrible, and they picked us apart at will.
And don't forget
we played Oklahoma State last year when they were without Justin Blackmon (suspended for one game) and we played Nebraska which pretty much threw as little as possible (perhaps because Taylor Martinez throws knuckleballs that wouldn’t hit the side of a barn). Syracuse had a pitiful offense, even for a Big Least team. And, as you pointed out, we saw what they did to our defense in the Pinstripe Bowl.
Actually neither in the case of Baylor
They won us the Miami game for sure. In the Baylor game they put our offense in position to win us the game
"Nor yet in Dell?"
B/12 shenanigans on bowl slotting, ALERT; ALERT!
Over on BON, “billfromlaketravis”, a regular and credible poster on that site, is intimating strongly that the winner of the Tx. v. Baylor game will get the Alamo Bowl.
Now, he doesn’t say who, if the B/12 does not get two BCS bids, will get screwed among, Cowboy, Sooner or Wildcat. All I have to say is, assuming KSU takes care of Cyclone, then the worst we can finish is co-champ or sole second. In that scenario, if we get relegated to the Insight Bowl (4th position), then we should raise bloody hell. As “bill” notes, the Alamo Bowl is prime for impressing Texas recruits and their families . It would also be much easier on the pocketbook of KSU fans.
If we get screwed again on bowl slotting by the Texas mafia, then I would think many on here would finally see why Mizzou said “enough.” (And by making that comment, I don’t want to re-start that debate – I mention it only to point out that the B/12’s bowl slotting over the years has, in fact, been a travesty, and WE BETTER NOT PUT UP WITH IT ANYMORE!
http://www.burntorangenation.com/2011/11/27/2590559/sundays-with-bill-rejoicing-on-thanksgiving
oh hail the Purple and White
I just don't see it happening
If we lost to Iowa State I would say anything could happen, but if we win and are either T1 or outright second in the conference, no way we get overlooked for teams we beat with Currie and Shultz heading things up. This weekend will sort a lot of it out, but I’m not worried about going lower than Alamo (and confident in BCS or Cotton) yet.
Bitchslapping Texas since 1997
I hope you are correct
but, based on the b/12’s history, I see no reason for your confidence in a just result.
I am just saying we better be proactive in letting the powers that be know that a screw job, in light of what this conference has gone through over the last two years, WOULD NOT be in the conference’s best interest.
On things like this, I have no doubt but that the movers and shakers in Texas would screw us in a heart beat.
oh hail the Purple and White
Myth
2008 Cotton Bowl, where Mizzou played Arkie- attendance – 73,114.
2001 Cotton Bowl where KSU played Tenn. – attendance – 63,465.
2002 Cotton Bowl where OU played Arkie attend – 72,000.
Mizzou, when given a fair bowl slot and a good opponent has traveled just fine. But when they get slotted two places below where they should be, they haven’t traveled well. That happens to a dispirited fan base.
We didn’t travel that great to the 1998 Alamo bowl, after the greatest hose job in B/12 history. And that memory is fact, not conspiracy.
oh hail the Purple and White
Hard to argue with those numbers
But the fact that Missouri didn’t get an Orange bowl and KU did is NOT a conspiracy.
I imagine that the Big 12 has absolutely 0 influence on who the Orange bowl picks for their at-large. Maybe if this was one of the other lower bowls, or even the Fiesta, but why would the Orange care what Big 12 officials wanted in regards to who they selected?
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Mizzou's complaints over the Orange Bowl slight,
while the loudest, was its weakest complaint. KU had one loss, they had two.
Mizzou was hosed on other bowl selections, and those were better complaints.
oh hail the Purple and White
I won't argue that.
Don’t know enough about Mizou bowl history to know when they’ve been screwed.
But I figured you were including the Orange Bowl since every Mizzou fan (not saying you are a Mizzou fan) loves to talk about that. That was the only reason I brought that up.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Come on.
The one loss was to Missouri! A week before! On a neutral field!
KU would have had at least two losses if it had played Missouri’s 2007 schedule. Missouri simply had the misfortune of playing two games against OU.
I don’t see how any neutral observor can claim that Mizzou did not deserve the Orange Bowl over KU. And Beebe went on the air during the Big XII championship to pitch KU for an Orange Bowl slot.
/end rant
by MU'97 on Nov 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Man that was a fun Orange Bowl.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Nov 28, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
lol
That is how you troll.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Stop cying over this one!
I defend you on some points, but this one makes you look silly. It was a toss up! OU trounced you in the championship game. KU was a reasonable choice. MU would have been a reasonable choice. The relevant point is, the B/12 didn’t screw Mizzou on this one.
oh hail the Purple and White
I thin two things frost people on this
1. Beebe, as the conference commisisoner, should not have taken sides.
2. KU apparently guranteed to the entire allotment would be purchased, which was at least quesitonable under the rules. (Insert ticket office/compliance not selling tickets joke here_.
The Orange Bowl may have told
Beebe that they would not be interested in a 2 loss Mizzou. Look, I understand the schedule problem. But look at KSU in 2000. We had 2 losses on the year (both to OU – the year it won the National Title). You don’t hear us bitch about that till hell freezes over. Now, 1998. YES.
oh hail the Purple and White
Of course, nobody blames us for bitching about 1998
seeing as how the response to that was a change in the rules to prevent that from ever happening again.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say we didn’t deserve a BCS spot in 1998. Hell, I’ve heard a lot of people without K-State bias say we deserved on in 1999.
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1998:
Yes we deserved a BCS bid. But where the REAL hose job came in, due to B/12 and Texas politics, was relegating us to the Alamo Bowl, which at that time was below the Cotton and Holiday Bowl. That was the worst part of the screw job. And why I will forever distrust the B/12 office, until they prove differently on these points.
oh hail the Purple and White
I remember Nebraska accepting a Holiday Bowl invite ...
before the BigXII Championship game was played. Seriously.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
As Itchy notes
the real problem was that Nebraska had already accepted a Holiday bid, and the Cotton, assuming we wouldn’t be available, had already thrown in their lot even though they weren’t supposed to either.
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The Cotton Bowl was absolutely quivering for Texas that year ...
It was Texas’ first bowl in a while and it was the Ricky Williams Year in college football (Heisman Trophy for career achievements and all). That avg Texas team got to pound on a very avg Miss State team.
Yeah, my contempt for that year runs deep.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't the B12 change rules as well, so that bowls couldn't sign teams up until the championship game was over?
That was the reason we fell all the way to the Alamo, because the higher bowls had already reached agreements with other teams assuming we wouldn’t be available. I don’t really blame the B12 for that, except for not already having that rule in place.
Myth: KSU didn't travel that great to the 1998 Alamo Bowl ...
KSU sent anywhere from 30,000 to 35,000 fans to that bowl game, which I’m sure was well above avg. And that was after the biggest bowl screwjob of all time. Total attendance for the game was north of 60,000. Alamodome capacity is 65,000.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
1998 Alamo Bowl attendance: 60,780
I’ve heard that 30,000 plus were KSU fans, though I can’t find any solid estimates.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
You won't find any, because nobody makes real "solid" estimates of that kind ...
But KSU makes claim to “more than 30,000”:
“More than 30,000 purple-clad fans cheered the Wildcats on in one of the most exciting bowl game finishes in school history.”
— from kstatesports.com
I was there and I’m sure there were at least that many. KSU fans ruled the riverwalk leading up to that game. I went mostly out of a weird sense of obligation. I can tell you my heart definitely wasn’t in it.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I don't blame you...
the player’s hearts weren’t in it either.
I know they were disappointed…I was devastated. But what the group of pissed off players SHOULD have done was come out and kick the ever living snot out of Purdue and make everyone realize they really screwed the pooch by sending us to the Alamo Bowl. By handling things the way they did, they actually showed the BCS and the BCS bowls they did the exact correct thing by not selecting us as an at-large choice.
I hate when that happens. Grr.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks for looking this up Furnace
but I’m assuming the attendance numbers you have listed are total attendance numbers. That does not necessarily indicate that Mizzou travels well. I’m guessing the Cotton Bowl does a fairly good job of selling tickets to the game regardless of who plays in said game.
Mizzou could have sold 50,000 tickets, or 10,000 tickets. Difficult to tell from the info listed here. I’m guessing they didn’t sell 50,000 though, because that would likely get them some media mention for selling that many tickets (like when KSU sent 35,000 to multiple games).
/justsayin
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
How much of the attendance in 2008 was Arky?
You have to remember, for years Reunion Arena was known as “Barnhill South” because Arkansas would overwhelm the joint during the SWC tournament. They show up in droves for Cotton Bowls and other football games in Dallas.
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Well, there is some comparison for that...
2008 Cotton Bowl, where Mizzou played Arkie – attendance – 73,114.
…
2002 Cotton Bowl where OU played Arkie – attend[ance] – 72,000.
In both instances, Arkansas was the opponent, yet when Mizzou played they had a slightly higher attendance than Oklahoma.
So, at least in this bowl, Missouri did as well as Oklahoma. That is the point Furnace was making. If Missouri always under-traveled, then there should have been lower attendance numbers posted, correct?
He isn’t claiming that Missouri is a great traveling school, just that they aren’t awful. They are average.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
I could be cynical and point out
that 2008 was a response to 2007, when they got bypassed for the Orange Bowl because… they don’t travel.
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No, the 2008 Cotton Bowl was for the 2007 season
Look, I’m not saying Mizzou is top notch at traveling – just that I think they get a little of a bad rap. One of those talking points that gets in the water and is never examined.
I just remember reading Mizzou sold out there allotment, pronto, for the Cotton Bowl that year.
oh hail the Purple and White
Agree with you here, Jon
As you point out: What were the estimates for Mizzou fans traveling to the Cotton Bowl? Were they in the majority or were the numbers high due to Arky’s playing in the game?
by CT-K-Stater on Nov 28, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Why would playing Arky in 2008...
mean higher numbers than playing Arky in 2002? In the same bowl?
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Why would playing Arky in 2008...
mean higher numbers than playing Arky in 2002? In the same bowl?
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know what this is about.
Kindly disregard the double post.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I was wondering when you Tiger fans would show up to defend yourselves.
I hate doing it for you.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
It's all my bad
I got my years mixed up.
Of course, now I can be cynical and say y’all filled the Cotton Bowl ’cause you were pissed about the Orange Bowl. ;)
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Mizzou and Arkansas have had a pretty good rivalry that goes way back.
Coach Broyles came to Arkansas from Missouri and had Missouri on their schedule for many years after he took over. Now, in recent years, there has been the tie-in with Mike Anderson and that “love affair” so to speak.
I can understand fully why a lot of Tigger fans would have traveled well to see a Tigger vs. Hogs matchup.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
Keep in mind the Cotton Bowl Stadium saw a $57M rennovation
expanding it to 92,000 seats in 2008…though I don’t know that it was ready for Mizzou’s appearance in the bowl, but just sayin;
"Nor yet in Dell?"
They did a $57M renovation to the Cotton Bowl
because they no longer play the Cotton Bowl there?
I know the OU/Texas game is played there every year. Is this the only major game that is played there now?
Craziness if $57M was spent on a renovation for one game each year (and how much sillier would that look if OU and UT had ended up in different conferences and stopped the RRR)?
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
yea it was weird timing for sure, but hey it's done
TicketCity bowl is also played there.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Did not realize this about the TicketCity Bowl.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
FC Dallas used to play there as well.
Now they have their own stadium.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
bowl campaining
A lot of the bowl selections are decided by the amount of behind the scenes campaining that a school does for a particular bowl. I speculate that Missouri fell into the same trap that KSU fell into in 98, where since they where in the running for the national title game they fell behind the curve for wooing bowls to select them.
I will also note that
Missouri sold more tickets from its allotment to the Insight Bowl last year than Iowa, and that game set an attendance record.
It also slightly outsold Nebraska’s sales to the Holiday bowl.
Right.
You guys have done fine since 2007. But before that, you did kinda have a rep for not traveling. I’m not saying it was fair, but that rep’s hard, hard, hard to shake.
We have probably gotten better bowls in some years than we deserve, because we have a reputation for showing up.
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This^
Although we all know the Aloha Bowl in ‘94 and Alamo Bowl in ’98 were screw-jobs. Those teams deserved better than where they were slated. But yes, you could make arguments for other years where we went higher than perhaps we deserved (hell, in 2001 I’m not sure we deserved a bowl at all).
'94, we didn't have the rep yet.
‘98 actually cemented it; despite the fact that some people claim we didn’t show up for the Alamo Bowl, I clearly remember the following season, bowl reps were gushing about how we DID show up even though we were so bitterly disappointed.
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I don't think we deserved a bowl that year
Not a fun year.
It was my first bowl game to attend though, and I had fun because of that (and I was on the field on my stilts for the entire first half), but the game was lousy and pretty much reflected the season’s performance.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
1994, we got slightly hosed
we ended the regular season 9-2, only losing to #1 Nub and #3 Buffs (final AP results). But there were not that many “official” affiliations back then, so the slight can’t be put totally on the old B/8 office.
Now, we stunk up the Aloha Bowl because the O Line was sick of Chad May’s act and decided not to block for him in that game. He got clocked!
oh hail the Purple and White
Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team
oh hail the Purple and White
Amendment: No, we did get hosed in 1994
In 1994, the Cotton Bowl took a 6-5 Tex. Tech team over 9-2 KSU. The Cotton Bowl did not have to do this. My memory is coming back to me. T a&m won the SWC that year, but was on probation and could not play in a bowl. The Sun Bowl took runner-up Longhorn, and the Cotton took Tech. The Fiesta took a 6-4-1 Notre Dame (because of another of those damn "special rules" for the Domers – another reasons I hate that school).
Kind of complicated because of the funky "rules" for at large and conference tie ins for the old "Bowl Coalition." Nonetheless, I remember now that speculation was the Cotton hosed us in favor of Tx Tech because this was when KSU was really coming up the ladder (and getting good Tx. recruits). It was in the fall of that year that the announcement of the B 12 starting with the 1996 season was made. The old timers around Manhattan thought we got jobbed by Texas politics because they didn’t want to give KSU any unnecessary help climbing the ladder.
check out these links. Interesting stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowl_Coalition
Check out the bowl results from the 1994 season, and you will see that going into the Bowl season we were ranked #11, and we got relegated to the Aloha Bowl. Lots of teams got good bowls above us that shouldn’t have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season#Bowl_games
And there were only 19 bowls in 1994. What, there are 32 now? Too many. 24 is about the correct number.
oh hail the Purple and White
The Fiesta Bowl in 1994
taking – yet another – god-awful Notre Shame team was really the dagger to the heart. K-State got hosed, pure and simple. That ‘94 team was really solid and coming off a Cinderella season that captured the media’s attention (though, unfortunately, it got blocked out a bit by Wisconsin’s own Cinderella Season in which the Badgers emerged from the Big-10 shadows after about 30 years of missing-in-action).
The thing about those years and Wisconsin
was Alvarez scheduled non-conference matchups just as weak as Snyder, but Wisky never got the reputation for “doing it” only by scheduling cupcakes. That was just another of the many examples of how the media gets a talking point and beats it to death, and then doesn’t apply the same standard to other teams.
oh hail the Purple and White
You and I both know
as does anyone in the country that follows college football, that the Big-10 gets ridiculous amounts of media-love. And it is, hands-down, the most over-hyped conference with the most over-hyped teams (Hello, Penn State) on an annual basis. God help us all if Indiana wins 9 games or Northwestern goes undefeated in regular-season play. We’ll never hear the end of it. I’m actually surprised the media don’t have Michigan at #1 in the AP poll.
did the Big 8 have a Fiesta tie-in in 1994?
Also the Bowl Alliance wasn’t around yet was it? I think the fact that a 6-4-1 Notre Dame team got in illustrates how bad the Bowl system used to be.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
The Big 8 never had a tie to the Fiesta.
That only came about with the merger, and started with the ’96 season. The Fiesta had not had any tie-ins at all before that since the Arizona schools left the WAC for the Pac-10.
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ok that's what I was thinking (well not that specific, but in general)
So point is, the old bowl system was messed up and we never really had a shot at the Fiesta in 1994 anyway.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Our tie in back then
was to the Orange Bowl.
oh hail the Purple and White
The Cotton DID have to do that in 1994.
They were still absolutely contractually tied to the SWC Champion through 1995. There was a five-way tie for first with A&M out of the picture, and the Cotton chose to take Tech as the SWC Champs.
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Did the Sun Bowl have to take the 8-3 Longhorn team, then?
Not arguing, because maybe it was the fact that aTm was on probation that made it appear that we got hosed in ’94. But if you look at the list of teams that went to better bowls than we did in 1994, when we were 9-2 and ranked #11, we got hosed. But I had forgotten that aTm, which really had the best record in SWC, could not go to a bowl that year.
How can there be a 5 way tie for second place?
oh hail the Purple and White
We got the 1996-97 Cotton Bowl because our fans are awesome ...
and CU is right up there for the worst bowl school of all time.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Furnace, don't worry about what some random poster says.
Let the season play out and then worry about your conspiracies.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Also, he's hardly a legit source of inside information. Read what he says again -
“I think if Texas beats Baylor, they’ll be selected for the Alamo Bowl. Should they lose the Insight Bowl and the Holiday Bowl are likely. Give me the Alamo Bowl because of the proximity. It’ll be nice for most of the Texas players’ families to see their kids play in San Antonio. Not to mention, recruits considering Texas could go to the game. Yeah I’m talking about Javonte Magee.”
Like I care what some UT fans THINKS. You shouldn’t either. It’ll be better for your old heart, and after 8 games of a TD or less, your heart could use a rest.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
I would much rather worry about the reverse scenario
a 9-3 Baylor team having only maybe an hour and a half more of a drive down I-35 than a 8-4 UT team…though I get the proximity of UT, I just don’t see a 8-4 UT team getting selected over a 10-2 KSU team.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Good point
You know all 37 Baylor fans will be chomping at the bit for a name bowl game after this really good season (by their standards) and last year’s embarrassing beatdown at the hand of the Zooker.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
I feel like Texas matches up pretty well against Baylor, so i don't think we'll have to worry about it too much
I just don’t see Baylor being able to stop the Texas run game, and Texas’s defense is good enough to at least slow down RG3.
yes Furnace...
I am sure there will be some major hell raising if Texas gets picked over us for the Alamo Bowl slot considering that we will be at the very least 2 games better then them on the year with a victory over them in hand so I want to think that there’s no way that would happen but considering everything other than the BCS title game is technically just a glorified exhibition game it wouldn’t be beyond the realm of possibility that we would get screwed like that…if this happens I will no longer point the finger at the SECeders…I truly think it will not happen that way tho. The Texas Bowl is the most likely to land the horns at this point I believe.
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 10:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Where KSU and the bowls are concerned, anything is possible.
Most years I wouldn’t give a crap, but this team deserves the Cotton Bowl (at least) … if they beat Iowa State.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
This is all I'm saying!
If we beat Cyclone, and get relegated to the Insight Bowl, all hell should break loose. I am not saying it will happen. But if it does, then we know that the B/12, despite all that has happened over the last two years, is not serious about being a fair conference.
And we should be letting Neinas know that. None of this “wait and see” crap.
Now, if OU beats Okie Lite, I can see us in the Alamo, and I wouldn’t complain. But the Insight Bowl? That would be a screw job.
oh hail the Purple and White
so we should be upset about an internet post?
So everyone other CFB should be upset about the folks hear who are posting about K-State to a BCS bowl? Just because somebody wants that to happen?
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by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sadly
I think the Insight Bowl is probably our most likely destination if we lose to Iowa State…I think the Alamo Bowl would take an 8 win Baylor or Texas team over a 9 win KSU team this year…but yes. If we end at 10-2 a bid to the big 12’s fourth tier bowl would be a major screw job…
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 11:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
If we lose to Cyclone, the Insight is not a travesty of justice
and we should NOT bitch about that. Then we would sound like Mizzou.
oh hail the Purple and White
[aside] ... As someone who has paid attention since the early 90's ...
It is very hard to wrap my mind around the fact that both the Insight and Alamo bowls are now better than the Holiday. Especially the Insight.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
good point
I was wondering about that myself…is it because San Diego doesn’t draw the crowds it used to? I mean. The Chargers were considering moving out of that city for awhile…
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 12:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No, it's because the Insight put lots of schmundo into that game ...
now hosted at the Cards stadium (I believe) and raised the profile and official pecking order.
I still consider the Holiday Bowl to be one hell of a bowl trip though. That has to be one of the best “bad” bowls now.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
huh ... for some reason I thought that was moving, too.
Anyway, the move from the baseball park to Sun Devil Stadium was more than enough to raise its profile.
I love Sun Devil Stadium. What a spectacular college football setting.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
me too. AZ cards fan + went to 97 Fiesta Bowl
Been in love since. It worked as a College + Pro Venue a lot better than any other out there IMO…but glad the two are divorced now.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Sun Devil Stadium is a great venue
I went to the last Cardinals game at Sun Devil Stadium in 2005 to see my Redskins play them. The place was only three-quarters full and easily 75 percent of those there were ’Skins fans. It also happened to be the Cardinals largest home crowd of the season. Pathetic.
Think of the logistics necessary
for the Insight to be held at Cardinal (Univ of Phoenix) Stadium on the year when they also host the BCS game. That would be three bowl games in the same location in a matter of 2 weeks.
Not saying it couldn’t be done, but with all of the parades and pep rallies and whatnot, that would be a lot of activity for one location.
And Sun Devil Stadium is a hell of an upgrade over Chase Bank (BankOne) Ballpark. I am not a fan of the baseball diamonds turned football fields.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
The Insight and Alamo both drastically increased their payouts.
The Holiday couldn’t keep up.
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Why does there seem to be so many changes with conference affiliations though?
Seems like the Big 12 has pretty much stuck with the same bowls (with the additions of Texas and Pinstripe), but the other half has changed in some of the bowls. What used to be Conference A’s #3 pick is now Conference B’s #4 pick, etc.
Maybe I am misremembering, but seems like the affiliations have changed a good bit since we have been bowling.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
It's all money.
What’s odd, though, is that newer bowls cause shifts in affiliation UP the line, especially when they have higher payouts than existing bowls. A new bowl might offer enough money to lure the ACC into shifting a tie-in to them, for example, and that starts a cascade. We don’t notice it as much because when we grab a new tie-in, it always happens to be at the bottom of the pecking order.
But we haven’t stuck with the same ones either, really. We used to have tie-ins with the Aloha (defunct, but we abandoned it before then), Independence, and the Tangerine (now the Champs Sports Bowl).
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I'm not gonna bitch about it
If we lose to ISU on Saturday and end up in the Insight Bowl. It would just be a major let down after the season we have had.
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 12:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Anything above the Pinstripe is better than we expected going in.
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this is true
But none of us expected the team to be one win away from a 10 win season…
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 12:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Keep in mind, he may be assuming two BCS bids.
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Urban Meyer officially off table today for KU
Meyer new coach at OSU.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
Was he ever on the table?
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
^This. lol
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Have you read their blog?
It was discussed.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 28, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
smh
Silly Jayhawkers…
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
and they also mentioned on their blog
that they felt they were just as good (if not better) a fit for the SEC as Mizzou.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Link?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
You really gonna make me look it up?
Why didn’t you ask Anon for the link? He is (obviously) referring to the same article I am.
Now that I think about it, it may have been an actual article in a newspaper, and not a post on RCT.
I shall see if I can find the hilarity. :)
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
I just don't remember any of us posting anything like that
Just defending my brethern! Unless we were just trying to get under a Mizzou fan’s skin…
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
At least one person last year thought KU was a good fit for the SEC,
just know that somethings are tossed out there that have no resemblance to reality everyone else lives in.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah. I read the posts, laughed and went on my way.
I was curious how this played at the RockChalk board.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 28, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Posts?
So, more than one people posted on rock chalk talk that KU was a better fit for the SEC than Mizzou? I need to see this…
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
I going to make millions teaching KU fans how to use google.
I think there was an article last year as well, but I do not know that for sure. It would have been before June 11, 2010 when I made a comment about it. If you use “ku sec june 2010” there are several results from KUsports.com and other places.
I still find the idea of KU in the SEC very funny, completely different culture than probably every school other than Kentucky and Vanderbilt.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Haha fair enough
You’ll find some crazy folks over at KUsports. I thought you meant us at RCT and I was just like “oh man we didn’t say that… did we?”
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure if anything was on RCT at any point
I figured it was bad enough to have it on kusports.com and the daily kansan.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, this is what I was referring to
Thanks for looking it up. I did a brief google search yesterday but then got bogged down with actual work stuff.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
Keep in mind its the Kansan...
A student paper… made by students at KU. There is gonna be some sillyness.
Remember when the KSU paper wrote this gem last year?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, that writer was being silly.
Our real rival is Iowa State. Why would we care what happens to KU?
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 29, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
::Iowa State fans start fist pumping::
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
the majority of K-State students use the Collegian for the crossword puzzle
otherwise I’m not sure it is used much since they removed the forum and the personals died.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 29, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Hey hey hey
Let’s not down play the importance of the cryptoquip.
That is all.
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
I used it for sudoku as well...
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
^this and nothing else
sometimes the forum, sometimes for a football recap, but if I picked it up at any time of the year outside of football season, it was for the SoDoKu
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Sudoku wasn't popular when I was a student
for me it was the crossword and the fourum.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Personally I actually read it when Beth Mendenhall was writing articles
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Link?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
When they fired Mangino
A buddy of mine, who is a huge KU fan (and never went to KU, lol) insisted to me they were going to hire either Patterson from TCU or Jim Harbaugh away from Stanford. I laughed in his face but the dude was dead serious. Talk about an inflated ego.
They seem to have a huge cash flow problem going forward.
3 coaches, 2 ADs. How will they afford a decent coach. Pillage the sacred cow basketball?
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I was thinking about this as well
Hard to pay all of those salaries at the same time.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
The KU fans I know
swear that the doctors and lawyers will pay up for an elite level coach because they care about football. I just laugh.
You might wanna hold back the laughter, or at least just some of it
A KU donor just ponied up 750K by himself to help buy out Gill. If ONE guy is willing to fork over that much cash to get rid of a coach… well I’d imagine the same types would pay for a successful coach to replace him.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
I coached teams to the playoffs 4 times while at K-State
it was only intramurals but I have a record of success.
and I’m available.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
You're too late
I’m already openly lobbying for the job over on RCT, and a few other posters have called dibs on assistant positions.
Plus, I’d suspect you’d really be there just spying on all my great ideas and relaying them back to Snyder. Actually, I’d be kinda bummed if you weren’t…
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, Snyder, don't really have any news for you today, Clark's just up to his normal crackpot ideas.
lol
Yeah, in a weird way, that would be depressing to not have anyone trying to spy on you.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
It's like come man, I'M DANGEROUS YOU BETTER BE SPYING
Snyder: What’s that Clark guy over in Lawrence up to now…
Spy: Um… well he showed up real hung over to practice, and after staggering around the endzone for a while and cursing at the water boys, he decided that we’d all watch Rudy for motivation. Then he showed us game film of his winning the national title in NCAA Football 2008.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
I just think there are too many jobs open
right now that are more desirable that can pay just as much as KU can. I mean come on, how much will you have tied up into your AD’s and HC’s next year? And then you will have to anti up another $10M contract, its just not likely. What you need to do is look into the AD’s past and see if he has any connections that are doing good as an assistant hc at a school like Wyoming, Temple, or Tulsa, someone who could be the next “up and comer” who will be affordable at $7-800,000/per. You have to be realistic, there are just too many things working against the idea of a big time splash.
#cosh4KU
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
BOTC - Read the Adventures of the BigXII if you doubt our serious attitude towards sports.
by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
Where do I send my check?
When life hands you lemons, make grape juice. Let them wonder how the F*ck you did it.
Fight till Hell freezes over and then fight them on the ice.
Problem is, the guy our AD has the most connections with IS Leach
They were together at a small school (Vandesta? Something like that) and developed a friendship. That is why KU fans think we have a puncher’s chance at least. Leach also interviewed our AD (Zenger) for a staff position in the past (Zenger used to be a coach as well).
There are a lot of more attractive places to coach, that is for sure. But to Leach, he can be back in the Big 12 against coaches he knows, use his Texas/Oklahoma recruiting pipelines, get to play Tech if he has any hard feelings, and leave his mark on a program.
Not saying we have a great chance, but there are reasons for him to at least take a decent glance. And the connection with the A.D. can only help.
I’m not hopelessly optimistic like most KU fans, but I’m certainly not ruling it out. In fact, I think we have a much better chance at Leach (based on the above reasons) than Fedora, Sumlin and others. Those are the guys who are going to hold out for a cushy job at a more prestigious school, IMHO
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, I think KU has a better chance of landing Leach than Leach has of landing KU...
If that makes any sense.
Basically, I think the biggest impediment to Leach coming to KU is the fact that Mangino was fired the same year as Leach for similar reasons. Also, Leach is still in a bunch of lawsuits.
I think that makes KU perhaps unwilling to hire Leach, despite it being the obviously best hire for them.
I think Leach would jump at that chance though. For all the reasons you mentioned above. Unless something was offered that was much better (and for all the reasons that KU might not offer Leach a job, those better jobs would probably not offer him one too) KU seems the best option available for Leach to get back into coaching.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
I think KU has to bite that bullet
If we hire Leach, attendance and just simple interest spikes dramatically, and that is what we need right now. We could have never gone after someone like Leach right after Mangino left, but it has been two years. Plus the Leach allegations appear to be pretty bullshit, hence him suing.
It is risky, but KU is in such a deep hole that I think Zenger has to make that gamble. Especially since Zenger has a personal relationship with Leach (apparently the two have maintained a casual friendship since meeting years ago), I think that will help him look past the baggage.
If KU fans learned anything from the Gill mess, its that you need someone with some swagger, toughness, etc. We brought in a hand holder after firing a tough guy, and… ouch.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
Oy.
Valdosta State.
Nobody important, just won a D-II championship here or there.
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Whatevs I was close.
I would have looked it up if I had time, but my puppy was eating my shoes…
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
It's been pretty widely reported that Harbaugh agreed to take the job but Lew Perkins wouldn't let him coach Stanford in the bowl that year.
No way that would happen now and I can guarantee that regardless of what you guys think of us, nobody thought Meyer was a candidate.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
What was the "in" there? ...
Wasn’t it something about the wife’s family ties or something? Also, was Stanford paying him in magazine subscriptions or something?
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Family connections from what I remember.
Not sure what Stanford was paying him but KU was at a little over 2 a year for him. He decided against it and somehow we paid the same thing for a MAC coach that had a 20-30 record.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
In retrospect this seems like an even bigger mistake by Lew
(making the stipulation that he not be allowed to coach the bowl game) than the other mistakes he made.
Wow.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
Drives us nutts... I cry myself at night thinking about it
I’m not even joking… FML
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 28, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
but c'mon, do you think he'd still be at KU at this point?
guy was going to jump to the NFL eventually. Yea you probably win more than 5 games in the past 2 years, but I’d say there’d still be a coaching search for KU in 2011 with Harbaugh…though he probably woulda had to win at least 9 games in both seasons…scary
"Nor yet in Dell?"
No. But if he left for a job in the NFL
the program would have to be in a million times better shape than it is now.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Like Warden said
He leaves the program in better shape. Probably infuses us with some good talent for a year or two (and likely lands 1-2 good QB prospects).
I mean, in the end we got Gill for only two years. So even if we have Harbaugh only two years… well you see what I’m saying.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
Those KU folks really know their college football!
oh hail the Purple and White
Now that is FUNNY!
And good luck with that.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 29, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
Its still just "Sources" who say this
and credible “Sources” reported the same at the end of last week before Meyer released his own official statement saying he had NOT been hired.
I wish ESPN would stop using unnamed “sources” as (lol) sources of credible information. That has led to so much misinformation lately its bordering on the ridiculous…
This morning ESPN televised that Meyer had accepted the head coaching position.
Now either, ESPN is going to look awfully foolish or he has tendered his resignation.
/hopingespnlookssilly
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 28, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
All the online stuff still just says
“sources say”, and I didnt have a chance to watch SC this morning, so I’m not sure where the discrepancy is…
giggles
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
by Sean T on Nov 28, 2011 10:24 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Awesome.
Words fail me.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
As and Addendum to Furnace's point above about bowl selection
I am completely aghast at the media infatuation with Michigan right now. Multiple sports writes seem to think that Michigan has locked up a BCS berth, despite being outside the normal criteria. Besides that, they are passing over a currently eligible K-State that is riding a super high this year and as a history (see above discussion) of bringing tons of fans.
If OSU beats OU on Saturday, I just don’t understand a world where Michigan (who did not make its conference champ. game) gets into a BCS game over K-State. It just seems unfathomable.
Is anyone else as perplexed by this as I am???
I'm not perplexed, just vexed ...
Michigan is a sports media darling. One that’s been down for some time now. They will be ushered back into the BCS if at all possible.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
If they could get ND in with only 8 wins...they could pair the two.
And they would do this in a heartbeat.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. - Vince Lombardi
by Catbacker98 on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
True, true
i would just think that the “Ultimate Underdog” story might bet a better tell than the “Once-powerful-program-returns-to-somthing-akin-to-what-it-used-to-be” story
I wish it were that way ...
But the truth is that every year, you have to hope for the darlings to lose enough to not be considered … because there is a fairly long list of possibilities in any given year that will get at-large spots ahead of KSU (unless the at-large is for the Fiesta Bowl or KSU is qualifying under the K-State Rule).
The name trumps the story just about every time.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I know, but my brain always defers
to what should be, not what actually is in these cases. I do the same thing with politics.
And the reason why K-State could get passed by Michigan is the same reason OSU could will probably get passed by Alabama for the title game, even though OSU has a better record against top competition (assuming a victory on Saturday)
The media loves the old powers
It’s the same reason Nebraska gets so much love, even though they haven’t won a conference in a decade.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
and won't again this year!
Bwahahaha!
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 28, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Ditto Penn State and Notre Shame
Two over-hyped schools that get tons and tons of media love (so long as no stories about former assistants and grand jury presentations emerge).
by CT-K-Stater on Nov 28, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Here is a pretty good list of teams we have to root against starting out every year ...
Florida State, Miami, Wisconsin, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Oregon, UCLA, USC, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, LSU, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Notre Dame.
phew. Most of those are media darlings, a few are just teams with higher Q rating than KSU. Any of those schools get the jump on KSU for an at-large, unless the at-large is to the Fiesta Bowl. I left out a few arguable ones (Washington, Stanford, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Iowa).
How many at-large spots are there? The math ain’t good, which is why KSU has to win the conference to go BCS bowling.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
It's so bad...I would almost scratch Arkansas off of that list
once you compare them to others…maybe Michigan State too, but for the most part you nailed it.
"Nor yet in Dell?"
Dude, I'm 100% with you here, I-n-S
Then you have to account for the “Cinderella” stories, such as 2006 Rutgers where the East Coast media went ga-ga falling in love with the Pink Knights. Of course in the end that team – the greatest in Rut history – got relegated to the Texas Bowl and we all know what happened there.
And I think you can most definitely throw in the ones you left out, plus North Carolina (media loves the Tar Holes).
Michigan screwed us of a BCS bid in 1999 too.
Why be surprised now?
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 28, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Ah yes, I do remember that Orange Bowl, for being disgusted by it.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I believe that was a Tom Brady Michigan team, was it not?
Before Tom Brady was Tom Brady, though.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 28, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
And I am just as perplexed about their infatuation with VaTech.
Jeebus! The ACkCk is just a dog of a conference this year.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
I will be highly surprised if we get a BCS bid
My only point in starting this is the following:
1. B/12 conference office does not have that much influence over “at large” selections.
2. BCS will pick Michigan over us, if at all possible, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Eyeballs. Money. That is the way that is.
3. However, the B/12 office has SOME influence over other “affilliated” bowls. Now, I was only complaining about a scenario where OU beats OSU so there is a 3 way tie (and B/12 does not get two bcs bids. If, as co-champs, we got relegated to less than the Alamo, and the Alamo picked a 3 loss Baylor over KSU, I’d be pissed. If OSU wins, and we are sole second place, I don’t see the Cotton picking Sooner over us.
4. KSU has been screwed many times in bowl selection (more than Mizzou).
oh hail the Purple and White
I broke this down yesterday elsewhere, should have done it here too.
There are assumptions we can make. One is an LSU win this week. (If Georgia wins, we’re going to San Antonio unless OU beats OSU.) The other is the winner of Bedlam; again, if OU wins, forget it, we’re going to Dallas. We can also safely assume that the losers of the Big 10 and ACC championship games are out, and that Oregon will win this week. The only open question is Michigan’s availability.
First, if Michigan’s available:
The order of selection for at-large spots would be Sugar, Fiesta, Sugar, Orange.
The available schools would be Stanford, Houston, Boise, K-State, the Big East champion, and Michigan if they move into the top 14.
The Sugar would not take Stanford or Boise with their first pick. If Michigan’s available, they probably take them, or go with Houston (Houston is a four-hour drive from New Orleans, they have the cachet of being unbeaten, and when they’re winning they actually show up). The Fiesta would almost certainly take the other; they’re sure as hell not taking K-State, right? They might take Stanford, but… I’m seeing a future where Stanford’s in the Alamo Bowl, because they just don’t travel at all. Back to the Sugar, we’re left with Stanford, Boise, K-State, and the Big East Champ. If the Big East Champ is West Virginia, the Sugar would take them in a heartbeat, leaving Stanford to the Orange. Otherwise, they’re really just going to have to choose between us and Stanford, sending Cincy/Louisville to the Orange.
Now, if Michigan’s out of play:
The Sugar starts with Stanford, Houston, Boise, K-State, and the Big East champ. Again, no Stanford or Boise on their first pick. They’re not going to sink the first pick on the Big East champ, either, even if it’s WVU. That leaves us or Houston. Even if they pick Houston, the Fiesta will then take Stanford, and the Sugar will turn right around and take us (or WVU). If we’re still not in a BCS bowl at that point, it’s simply a question of whether the Orange would rather have us or Boise.
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Contributor at Bring on the Cats, SBNation's Kansas State blog
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Unless Stanford falls in the BCS standings, they're in somewhere.
Fourth in the standings guarantees an at-large bid.
Only if #3 isn't an at-large
but that wouldn’t be the case in this scenario anyway.
It doesn’t matter if Michigan’s not available, since Stanford would end up somewhere anyway. It would keep us out of the BCS if someone grabbed Michigan.
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Contributor at Bring on the Cats, SBNation's Kansas State blog
EDSBS Censor Librorum Promulgatio Media
I thought the "Kansas State Rule"
Protected the 4th ranked team as well?
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 1:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only if #3 isn't an at-large.
If #3 is an at-large, then they fulfill that obligation. They’re only required to take #4 as an-large if #3 is a conference champion.
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Contributor at Bring on the Cats, SBNation's Kansas State blog
EDSBS Censor Librorum Promulgatio Media
Any chance The Cotton Bowl
Selects OSU over us if OU gets the Auto bid to the Fiesta?
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 1:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
or is this scenario
Under the asumption that OSU gets an at large bid to the BCS if they lose to OU?
by Kohawk84 on Nov 28, 2011 1:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I cannot see OSU failing to go the BCS at this point.
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I could.
Seeing how OSU fell after their loss to ISU in OT, after a university related tragedy compared to how little Ark and Ala. fell after their losses.
Then again it would not surprise me if they made the BCS along with OU.
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by Anon_the_younger on Nov 28, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
A 10-2 OSU with losses in their last two games seems unattractive to me.
Versus a 10-2 KSU team that travels well and would absolutely kill to go to the BCS after sharing a Big 12 title.
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They're not going to drop in the polls or computers
enough for us to overtake them, even with a loss, and they’re not Stanford.
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We don't have to 'overtake' them
The bowls are not contractually obligated to take the higher ranked team.
If they find KSU more attractive when we are BCS #10 and they are BCS #8 they can take us.
Just ask Missouri.
Would you like some Freys with that?
by ChrisP Wildcat on Nov 29, 2011 6:56 AM CST up reply actions
T Boone will have something to say about this scenario
He can say “I’ll buy a million worth of ads if you take Cowboy.” And he will, if they are close.
oh hail the Purple and White
I will be highly surprised if we get a BCS bid
My only point in starting this is the following:
1. B/12 conference office does not have that much influence over “at large” selections.
2. BCS will pick Michigan over us, if at all possible, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Eyeballs. Money. That is the way that is.
3. However, the B/12 office has SOME influence over other “affilliated” bowls. Now, I was only complaining about a scenario where OU beats OSU so there is a 3 way tie (and B/12 does not get two bcs bids. If, as co-champs, we got relegated to less than the Alamo, and the Alamo picked a 3 loss Baylor over KSU, I’d be pissed. If OSU wins, and we are sole second place, I don’t see the Cotton picking Sooner over us.
4. KSU has been screwed many times in bowl selection (more than Mizzou).
oh hail the Purple and White
1998 Alamo Bowl?
I’d say that at least belongs in the same conversation…
So who do we want to win Bedlam?
Honestly maybe its because where I live, but Bama/LSU NC game turns my stomach. I am thinking the only way that doesn’t happen is a Okie blowout. A shared Big12 title I hate to say, means little to me. Especially when you look at the 2 teams we are sharing with.
OU!
As much as I despise Big Game Boob, I want another conference championship trophy! The first one looks really nice, and I’d LOVE to have a second in Vanier to join it. How fantastic would it be for Snyder to have a second conference title, particularly with this team of (almost) no-names?
I piss on the BCS anyway, and if the title game is a rematch, I won’t care and I won’t watch.
Yeah, it would be nice if OSU would win and get to the fake national title game, but they’re going to get smoked by LSU anyway, so I won’t watch much.
My dream weekend is Georgia beats LSU, LSU does not make the title game, Bama does, OU beats OSU, Stanford or VT then go to meet Bama in the national title game.
I AM Professor Chaos!
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
by Sean T on Nov 28, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Oklahoma. We claim a Big 12 title and get a second football trophy in the last ten years.
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and me
I do NOT want to see a rematch either. But like Sean said, if LSU/Bama is chosen to be the MNC game, then I just will find something else to watch that evening.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
I'd rather watch paint dry than a repeat of the "Game of the Century"
Not that I watched that anyway, I was watching one of the many classic games KSU was involved in this season (and the only classic they lost!). I did not like the Mushbugerger and Herbie kept talking about the World’s Worst Football Game during the Cats game.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
agreed
I don’t think I even switched over to it once.
A great point was made earlier by someone today…these teams (LSU/Bama) are so great and have such good defenses, yet basically every other team that played either of these teams was able to score more on them than they were able to score against each other. Weird, huh. Seems like they would do even better against “inferior” competition.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Alabama also missed like three field goals in that game...
FWIW
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 29, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
even more exciting
they have an unreliable field goal kicker.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
why are they so great though? They have operated in the vaccum that is the SEC and it
is weak this year. These teams are ranked where they are because if the past, which in college athletics more than anything it is year to year.
I have no clue why they are so great
Sorry…didn’t use quotation marks and sarcasm button correctly in that last post.
The SEC, IMO, deals with their own perception issues, just like we do. Except their perception issue does not really present a “problem” like it does for us. Just about any team in the SEC gets the benefit of the doubt. A loss does not mean a team is now exposed, or a fraud.
Remove names from teams’ resumes and take a blind look at them and I would venture to guess most of the SEC teams (including Bama) would not rank as highly as most people would think.
First to identify a TEWWT (so what if it was unintentional)
by Jeremy Sharp on Nov 29, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I agree on the importance of conference titles, and I don’t give a hoot about Mythical National Titles. I WILL NOT WATCH A LSU – BAMA REMATCH, even if Okie Lite loses to OU. I simply don’t care about BCS #1 anymore (unless, of course, KSU was legitimatly in the picture).
So, go Sooner!
oh hail the Purple and White
Defensive tackle
2 of our 11 recruits signed for next year are DT and I see we have another trip planned for another Juco DT. My first thought is that our coaches must not be high on the freshman or Juco people we already have on the team—-can’t think of all of them but we must have at least 5 or 6 DT that have not seen the field this year and I was hoping there was a lot of talent that was being “groomed” for next year and we would be improved. Does anyone know where we stand?
Snyder likes him some depth
Tell me the Cats don’t need help for next year when you see the same three guys, two of whom are seniors, out there every game. Kibble and Guidry are gone, and the more the Cats have at DT (not like its a huge jump to DE either…) the better.
"If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse." - Mark Twain
Leach is on his way to Lawrence...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EJA565/history/20111128/0055Z/KMTH/KLWC
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." Mark Twain
Nevermind...i'm retarded.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." Mark Twain
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