K-State Slate: 1.27.11
by TB on Jan 27, 2011 7:51 AM CST
in News
Email
Print
Bobby Knight continues to be a lightning rod as a broadcaster.
The NCAA has declared Tony Mitchell academically ineligible. It's all K-State and Frank Martin's fault. /noit'snot
The K-State women's basketball team is now 4-2 in conference play after beating Colorado, 72-59.
The Dog Worshippers in College Station aren't too sure they like the idea that ESPN's new University of Texas TV network could broadcast high school football games. If we could get back to the point of competing for some of those recruits, I'd probably care more.
In non-sports news, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor will be at K-State today with two other federal judges as part of the Landon Lecture series. If you're around, I highly recommend going. It's not every day you get the perspective of the highest-ranking members of the judiciary.
34 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Interesting stats on Jake:
From Martin Manley’s column at the KC Star -
"It’’s worth pointing out that this is the third consecutive game Jacob Pullen has not broken double-digits in EFF. Despite averaging 18 ppg for the three games –– giving novice analysts goose-bumps – he has played poorly –– mostly shot poorly. During that stretch he was 6/21 (29%) from threes and 9/22 (41%) from twos. He’’s also had the same number of turnovers (9) as rebounds and assists combined. This is a classic example of how misleading scoring is and how it gets unjustified glory. Having said that, Pullen has little choice except to continue shooting. K-State just doesn’’t have much offensive flexibility."
Link: http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/2889
The turnovers are preventing Jake from being a truly great player. And I disagree with the idea that Jake has no choice but to keep shooting. The shooting isn’t the problem. It is the fact that in trying to get HIS shot, he is turning the ball over too much. Hard to understand for a senior, with all that talent. Wish Frank bets he wishes there was an answer.
oh hail the Purple and White
Re: Turnovers
Last game really hurt him with 5. I think his competition with Lace was a factor in that. jmo.
by WillieWannabe on Jan 27, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
I'm torn on this whole EFF/KenPom/stats revolution in basketball.
In some ways it is a good measurement, but I just can’t buy into it like I can for baseball, which is a much more inherently stats-driven game. So many components go into team sports. And a mathematical formula that measures a game based on the statsheet is going to miss out on a lot of the intangibles. For instance – Asprilla had a decent EFF compared to the other bigs. Does this mean we miss him? Hell, does anyone even remember that we once had him? I personally prefer JHR to Asprilla, as crazy as that sounds. And Southwell played very solidly against Baylor and yet put up a tiny EFF number. It’s an interesting quant approach (and have to give KenPom credit for being on the money a lot), but I’m not sure it accounts for a whole lot so often. I think WW makes a great point – Jake going at Dunn probably hurt him TO-wise in the game. But I’m also a bit tired of the Jake TO talking point. Yes, he could protect the ball better and not force it as much (so there is some reasonable criticism), but he’s our best offensive player and when the offense is so often stagnant, he’s going to try to make a play. I love Rod, but he doesn’t drive to the hoop well yet nor does Spradling, Southwell doesn’t shoot well, and the bigs tend to disappear for stretches. Pullen takes a lot of chances – it’s what makes him great and maddening at the same time. But his TOs shouldn’t be viewed in a vacuum – you have to take into account the context of the whole offense.
by yeahboozin on Jan 27, 2011 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It can be especially deceiving
for a team like K-State. A defensive minded team that relies heavy on rebounding. If you look at last year (don’t have it in front of me at work), we definitely put up better numbers (via EFF, KenPom, etc.) but the style we play lends itself to not matching up directly with stats. Last year especially, games where Jake or Denis may have had an inefficient game, especially shooting, guys like Curt and Lou to a certain extent excelled based on our rebounding prowess. And in those types of games, we still came out on top more often that not.
I think that the stats have a big part in the game, and I’m a big stats guy. But as a K-State fan, certain valuations have to be taken with a grain of salt.
Just what you need from your star player, getting into a pissing contest with Jawbreaker and turning the ball over 5 times
Enough with the dribble-drive into 3 people Jake! Please!
Fire Chris Cosh!
If it makes you feel any better...
Jake came out on top.
by WillieWannabe on Jan 27, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
I've been trying to make this point for awhile now, but have been shouted down about it.
A player is NOT playing well when they get 18 points per game on 20 or so shots per game. And the claim that he just has no choice but to keep shooting is utter BS. We have others who can score, but Jake just sucks the oxygen out of the offense sometimes by taking all the shots. He’s not an elite shooter at ALL. In fact, he’s probably more like a slightly above average shooter, who gets really hot once in awhile. I think his shooting percentage would go WAY up if he just started letting it come to him instead of putting his head down and trying to “get his.” I’d take 15 ppg from Jake any day, as long as it was coming on 10 or 11 shots, instead of 18 ppg on 20 or so shots.
Also, someone above mentioned that KenPom doesn’t measure intangibles. That’s true enough, especially on the team level. But is anyone really going to try to make the case that Jake has contributed ANYTHING in regards to “intangibles” this year? Really?
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Jan 27, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Pullen
It’s interesting. Jake is actually shooting the same percentage this year overall: 42%. However, his percentage from 3 is down to 32% from 39%. Which means he is shooting better from inside the arc this year, currently at 50%. He probably would be best served to tone down the threes. If he’s wide open, obviously shoot them, but don’t force them.
Also, according to kenpom, his TO rate is still better than the other guards, outside of McGruds… unless I’m reading it wrong. I still don’t have the best handle on these stats yet.
by WillieWannabe on Jan 27, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Some thoughts on Jake’s stats:
Recap – (averages per game):
Scoring: 17.9
3 pt : 32.8 (33.333 is the average needed to = 50% from 2 pt range) So this is acceptable, but not outstanding.
2 pt. shooting, is 7.1 attempts per game and 3.5 makes per game (49.5%). Again, acceptable but not great.
Free throw %: 76.1 (grade-B)
Turnovers per game is 2.8 and assists per game is 3.5. This, in my opinion, is not terrible, but not what you’d expect from a senior, pre-season all-American.
My summary: Jake forces things in big games; because they are big games his mistakes stick out like a sore thumb. Example: second half of the MU game, we make a run, and cut the deficit to 3 pts. Jake promptly makes 3 BAD PLAYS in 3 consecutive trips down the court, and took the wind out of the sails on our come back attempt. I don’t want to sound like a "Jake basher." But his decision making at key points of games has been less than what one would expect from a senior "leader", and I agree with Scott that this may be because he is trying to do "too much." That is all I’m saying.
oh hail the Purple and White
His 3 pt % last year
was clearly a result of his getting so many good “feeds” from Clemente, and he was truly the 2 guard last year.
I just wish he’d stop with the out-of-control drives to the bucket when there are 2 or 3 big guys under there. And we need an offense to get him more spot up 3 pt attempts off the feed. But if it were easy, it would have been done by now.
oh hail the Purple and White
A large part of the TO rate is due to the fact Jake has the ball in his hands so often.
Also, you bring up a good stat – the fact that Jake’s FG% is roughly the same but 3 pt % so down shows he’s done more driving the lane to score this year. It’s tough to have too many TOs as a spot shooter. But last year it was Denis who created offense and Jake could be the shooter. Plenty of times last year we would get upset at Denis for being out of control and turning it over (so silly in hindsight seeing how much he meant to the team…). It’s not different this year with Jake who has had to take on a larger role in offensive production. Conversely, when you aren’t getting free for open looks from beyond the arc as much, that percentage will go down.
All of this isn’t to say that Jake couldn’t be a bit more careful with the ball. There’s never a reason to try to split three defenders or get stripped from behind in the backcourt.
But I do think Jake is a very good player who has done wonders for the program and there isn’t a guy on the team I’d rather have the ball in the final minutes of a close game.
TO rate is used
in order to eliminate the mislead of straight turnovers. TO rate (if I am not mistaken) is how often (percentage) a player turns it over in relation to how many opportunities they had to turn it over. So he touches it more – yes, but TO rate would take that into account.
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
Yeah, my mistake.
I was trying to circle back to the unreliability of stats by saying it’s more that TO rates can be unreliably high or low for guys who don’t touch the ball a ton. Just like Myles has a bad FT% based on how he started slow and has such a small sample size, but seeing him up there he obviously will eventually have a good %.
So long story short, Jake has a pretty solid TO rate for a guy who controls the ball a lot. So even though his total TOs seems like a lot, his rate isn’t so bad. Thanks for making it clearer to say.
I like the EFF metric
It is simple, and easily applied. I don’t know how someone could measure “Turnover Rate” (based upon how many times a guard “handles” the ball – do they break down the film?).
The EFF is a good way to measure game to game consistency. If Jake has “high turnovers” because he’s handling the ball alot, you’d think he would have alot of assists, too, because he’s handling the ball alot. Neither are high in the aggregate. He just seems to turn the ball over more in the bigger games. Again, I’m not bashing on him; I just wish we had developed a point guard in order to exploit Jake’s real talent as an off guard. He is just not a natural at point guard, but he was one of the better 2 guards we’ve seen in years.
EFF = [(Pts + Reb + Ast + Blk + Stl) – (MissedFG + Missed FT + Turnovers)]
oh hail the Purple and White
I thought EFF took fouls into account as well.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Jan 27, 2011 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
EFF does not use fouls but I think it should. I use basically the same thing at RCT but include fouls.
For Furnace:
Turnover Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * TOV / (FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV). Turnover percentage is an estimate of turnovers per 100 plays.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Thanks Warden
I can see some sense in this. I am sure smarter folks than I came up with the formula, and if it has been around that long, there’s probably some merit to it. I wonder where they came up with the “+0.44” term in the denominator, however.
oh hail the Purple and White
I believe the 0.44
is probably a factor applied to attempted free-throws to address the fact that sometimes one missed free throw (an and-one or the front end of a one-and-one) is one possession and yet other times two or even three free throws is equal to “one possession”… that is just my guess though.
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
Bob Knight
As much I disliked the coach back when, as an analyst I don’t mind him, in fact at times he’s very insightful. He does have is … WTH was that moments. The guy knows his basketball, knows how to break a zone, have motion on offense, and just overall fundamentals of the game. Some games I wish HCFM would DVR the game and take some notes. Its not a knock on HCFM, he’s just a young coach and can learn a lot from coaches who have been around since the Dinosaurs.
I hate to say it, but I agree...
I am not in the Bob Knight is Satan camp.
by mac attack ict on Jan 27, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
I thought I read something about Mitchell.
Oh yeah it was in a fanshot. In other news if it takes gray uniforms to keep winning then I am all in on the decision.
I should add that if you are a student at K-State attend the Landon Lectures.
If it’s possible take advantage of this secret gem that KSU offers as they always have great lectures. I missed a couple while in Manhattan and could kick my younger self for not going. Just a word of advice from an alum.
Don't feel too bad, I think I went to one as an undergrad
I just found this so I hope you can enjoy the transcripts
http://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/landonlect/
Fire Chris Cosh!
It doesn't matter what your political affiliation is, or who the speaker is...
You should go if you can. It’s not every day that you get to hear and see people like this live and in person.
I remember when I sat through a non-Landon Lecture back at KSU between a biologist from, I believe, Case Western Research debate evolution with a theologian from Yale. To this day, the arguments made have helped shape my personal beliefs on the topic because I keep going back to the end results of those debates.
For those of you still in school…the university experience is what you make of it. It’s lectures like these that will stick with you much longer than a lot of the classes you take while you’re there.
Bring on the Cats
"Without getting into specifics, my exit involves a McFlurry machine and a video tape of risque commercials from overseas." -- Jack Donaghy
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
This is awesome...
thus spaketh teh MadCat.
Hail to the Purple, Hail to the White
Wildcat in spirit, Wildcat in fight
Hail Alma Mater from sea to sea
Onward forever, Hail Victory!
I have stealed it...
in payment, I give you an animated GIF I have created:
Hail to the Purple, Hail to the White
Wildcat in spirit, Wildcat in fight
Hail Alma Mater from sea to sea
Onward forever, Hail Victory!
I made it to two lectures in my time at K-State.
George W. Bush and the publisher of the NY Times. I wanted to go to others, but classes and work got in the way.
I think I only made 1, maybe 2
The first was Paul Harvey, and fell asleep unfortunately. I think maybe I saw the Shell Oil guy, but I think he came to my PolySci class while he was on campus for the Landon instead…then I saw him at a graduation.
Oh, my
How did you fall asleep at the Harvey lecture? That was one of the best speeches I’ve ever seen.
We must have had the same graduation, because I remember John Hofmeister (Shell Oil) speaking at my ceremony. He had a good message, too.
Agreed with all of the above, go to the Landon Lectures. I saw my fair share, but definitely missed too many of them.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Jan 28, 2011 8:11 AM CST up reply actions
Those were the two I saw as well, and one more I think but can't cogently remember if it was Landon or not
And as mentioned above, no matter your political persuasion you should attend these. I consider myself a liberal but would never pass on the opportunity to see Bush give a lecture. He’s the freakin’ PRESIDENT!
Aside from president’s the other guests always have very insightful and intelligent things to say. Really wish I could have seen Justice Sotomayor.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Jan 28, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bring On The Cats
Related FanShots on Bring On The Cats
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
