Thoughts on Carson Coffman
by grmann on Sep 7, 2010 9:27 PM CDT
Email
PrintI'd been planning to post something along these lines as a response to one of the postgame threads, but I kept mulling it over and it kept growing so I made it a FanPost.
Overall grade: C-
And if it wasn't for the fumbled snap he'd be in C+/B- territory. When you consider that we really just need a solid "B" at QB that's not terribly disheartening.
Things I liked:
11 of 16, 1 TD, no interceptions.
The winning 4th quarter drive. He'd been having a fairly rough day at that point, but was still able to come in and manage the only sustained drive of the game to end in the south endzone. He didn't throw a pass other than the last play, but that play was a nice little toss and catch on 3rd and goal from the 5. That was a drive and a play that K-State really needed to put some real pressure on UCLA.
Converting 3rd downs on the opening drive. Both 3rd downs K-State converted to keep that drive alive were on Coffman passes. The 2nd one came after 3rd and 1 got backed up to 3rd and 6 on a false start. In fact, overall he wasn't that bad passing on 3rd down: 3 completions that converted, 1 incompletion, and 3 sacks. But none of the sacks knocked K-State out of field goal range or pinned them deep in their own end.
Things I didn't like:
Fumbled snap. Don't care whose fault it was. Completely unacceptable. On your own 11 that goes double.
66 yards passing. On the other hand it wasn't like anybody was tossing the ball all over the field Saturday. Untill the last 2 minutes of the game--when UCLA went into desperation mode and K-State went into drain the clock mode--the QB stats looked like this:
Coffman 11/16 | 66yds | 1 TD | 0 INT
Prince 7/22 | 56yds | 0 TD | 1 INT
6 sacks for 34 yards. At least half of those were simply from holding the ball too long. Yes they are better than interceptions, but that kind of yardage loss just kills drives. Especially for a K-State team that's not that explosive on offence in the first place.
Bottom line:
Carson Coffman showed a degree of ... grit ... mental toughness ... focus--whatever you want to call it--that's fairly encouraging. He struggled with the technical aspects of the passing game Saturday, but not much more than UCLA's QB. When you take the wind into account and the fact that it was the first game, it's not unreasonable that the passing games would appear pretty rough. (By the way, if anybody wants to put together "against the wind" and "with the wind" passing numbers, I think they'd be kind of interesting. But not enough to go through a play-by-play and compile the numbers myself.) The fumbled snap was the only issue that really came anywhere close to costing the Wildcats the game.
All the problems he had are ones that should be fairly straightforward fixes. I don't recall him having a problem with holding on to the snap last year, so I'll assume that won't be a continuing problem this year. As for passing yardage, the numbers show it was a fairly rough day for everybody. If he plays a game that's not in gale force winds (should happen at least a couple times--even in Kansas) the yardage should go up. Even if the weather does continue to hinder long throws, that probably hurts the opponents more anyway. The sacks are probably a little tougher to fix, but I've really got to believe that however much we don't want to watch them, he's even more interested in not participating. I really think he'll put in the effort needed to make that happen.
In a more general sense though, I think the focus on passing statistics risks missing the forest for the trees. The primary purpose of the K-State passing game is not to rack up yards or get scores itself, but to keep the defense honest so they can accomplish that with the running game. With that in mind the true measure of the success of the passing game is not the passing statistics, but the rushing ones. Kansas State ran for 313 yards Saturday. So, either UCLA has one of the worst rushing defenses known to man, or the threat of passing did succeed in keeping the defense honest.
All comments, FanPosts and FanShots reflect only the view of the user creating them.
41 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I enjoy the alliteration in his name.
His game was so-so. Hopefully next week will give him a chance to work out kinks/jitters. But also….alliteration.
by williewildcrack on Sep 8, 2010 12:31 AM CDT reply actions
I think you're right with the C-
It was not a horrible performance. I thought Coffman did seem reasonably accurate, which is something. He just didn’t take the chance throwing downfield if there wasn’t something plainly open (aside from one ball out of bounds) which may have to do with UCLA’s terrific DBs, or the wind. Had he not held onto the ball of so long and known to simply throw it away it might have been a better performance. The WRs didn’t help his stats either. I don’t remember any catch-and-runs, but again, was this their fault or because of the DBs?
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton
Exactly
He didn’t make the highlight reel, or put up gaudy stats, but with the wind and him presumably not feeling that great, I’m willing to give him a mulligan on those two. I do think at the end of the day he did more to help his team than hurt them, which ain’t exactly high praise, but it certainly beats doing things the other way around. For a week 1 game against a quality opponent in which we got the win, I’ll take it.
I think you're dead on with this statement:
The primary purpose of the K-State passing game is not to rack up yards or get scores itself, but to keep the defense honest so they can accomplish that with the running game.
But I don’t know if that’s the best way to go…
The problem I have with this mentality is our ability to come back from an early deficit. The Tech game last year (and I suppose the A&M game if you flip the two teams) proved to us that we can’t compete with a team that scores early and often. Our smash-mouth type of football only works when we’re controlling the game. Get Coffman in a hurry-up offense and we might be in trouble.
When we play the better teams (in the Big 12), I think this is going to be somewhat of a problem and is why I can’t be too optmistic like some that we can get to 9 or 10 wins. It’s just not going to happen.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
Yep, it's all about the balance
We just simply can’t allow teams to gameplan solely to stop the run. It’s too easy to stack the box and take away our best player. The run drains the clock while allowing the defense to rest as well but 3-and-outs don’t help at all! We need a balance to keep ‘em honest. Our only hope of hitting 8 wins this year is to see something more from the passing offense (just to keep our ’strength’ effective).
The thing about opposing defenses focusing on only stopping the run
is that it will lead to more pressure when we do pass – - which will then lead to more sacks. As we saw on Saturday, Coffman was sacked a bunch of times. Combine his indecesiveness with the extra pressure and you’re just asking for trouble.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
I'm not sure it's "best" in any absolute sense either.
But we’ve got to play with the team we actually have, not the team we would ideally like to have. Besides, even a pass-first team is in pretty deep trouble if they’re down in the 4th quarter, ‘cause if they were succeeding with their gameplan, they wouldn’t be in that situation to begin with. Also, Bill Snyder is just about the best there is at playing to his teams strengths and away from their weaknesses.
I agree 9-3 or 10-2 are probably ridiculously optimistic at this point. I just want the team to get to 6 wins for bowl eligibility and then step back and see what else we can shoot for.
I’ll agree that Coffman is not and probably will not be a great QB, but I didn’t see anything Saturday to convince me that he’s not a “good enough” QB. While I’m not willing to settle for “good enough”, if it’s what’s available I’ll take it—especially if the alternative is “not good enough”. I just think that Carson Coffman is getting unjustifiably slammed for not putting up a gaudy enough stat line in one game. While his play was certainly not flawless, he did make some key plays in key situations. Plays that didn’t make any highlight reels, but were important in getting the win.
His performance, along with Bill's game plan on Saturday
had no reason for me to believe that you couldn’t switch any of our 3 QB’s and get the same results. I’m most curious about what Lamur has to offer with his athleticism. I hope he gets plenty of quality game experience this week.
Although this year has obviously started off much better than last season, if he continues throwing for 66 yards and continues to get sacked – we could see a Grant Gregory type switch soon. This year’s Gregory? Lamur. I think Bracket already called it, but I’ll second it.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
If there's a QB switch, all bets are off for 9-3
If there’s a QB switch, no way we get to 9-3. None of Coach Snyder’s really good teams had inexperienced QBs. His system demands an experienced QB, IMHO.
oh hail the Purple and White
Well I definitely agree with you on that one.
I just think Coffman is just a game manager and nothing more. I’m not sure he’ll be able to win some for us. I’d rather see younger players with potential. Just my preference. Coffman could prove me all wrong – and that’s why I don’t coach college football.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
The Solution ??
Hey, put D. Thomas under the center, Powell in the backfield with fullback Wilson, and freak the Huskers out!!
They’d have to respect the run with that backfield!
oh hail the Purple and White
What's the problem with "just a game manager"?
Daniel Thomas can and WILL win games for us. We don’t need to throw the dice at QB to get wins. We need a QB who won’t do something stupid and throw away a win Daniel Thomas got us. As you pointed out in another post this is not a K-State team that can come from behind. We need a QB who can manage the game early and make sure we don’t get behind in the first place.
All 3 of K-State’s sustained touchdown drives last Saturday had at least 1 Carson Coffman pass at a key time. They weren’t long bombs that padded the stats, or great highlight reel throws or catches, but they were all important for getting a new set of downs and keeping the ball moving towards the end zone.
Agreed!
My comments about D Thomas under center were tounge-in-cheek. I’m a Carson fan, in the sense that if he can be a solid, reliable QB, we can do some special things this year (and I’m assuming the D-Line steps up a bit, too). That’s a lot of pressure, sure, but hopfully he can handle it. As good as Sproles was, he would not have been as effective as he was (IMHO) without Roberson as the dual threat QB. D Thomas has already shown that he can gain 100+ ypg without a true running QB.
oh hail the Purple and White
Just six plays!
One final thought (from me anyway). A really special season may come down to whether we can execute about six plays (three each in the UCF and Iowa St games) where Coffman (or whomever is the QB) can complete down field passes (ball in the air for 15 yds or more) and the throw is in a position where our big, speedy receivers can get another 10-25 yards after the catch. Six plays – that’s it. If we show we can do that, the safeties in Big 12 play will have to stay honest, and D Thomas might average 6 yds per carry the rest of the year. IMHO, that is the "ideal" that Coach Snyder sets his offense up to achieve. Show you can burn ‘em on the long pass, and your running game will be just fine.
oh hail the Purple and White
Re: Sproles
Darren still ran for what like 1400 yards in 2004 without anything even resembling a competent QB. That’s more than DT has done (so far…). I’m a huge DT fan, but Darren Sproles is still the reigning champ when it comes to great RBs. That offense in 2003 was absolutely nasty when everyone was healthy.
This team is much better than the 2004 team for sure, but that’s an example I think of when defenses stack the box with 8 or 9 when all you can do is hand the ball off to an absolute stud at RB. This year we have much better options at the WR position and have the potential to have an explosive offense. But the explosiveness starts and stops with the QB position.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
Great point on Sproles
I agree Sproles is still the champ. We’ll know more after the UCF and Iowa St games, but it’s fun, for a change, to have some reason to get our hopes up!
oh hail the Purple and White
Absolutely
My pessimistic side took over after we missed out on a bowl game last year and Coffman didn’t help it last Saturday. But it’s only one game and hopefully after the UCF and ISU games, my optimistic side will come out.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
;-)
it’s only one game… that we WON! Right?
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
What is everyone's opinion?
Would Chris Harper seriously be any worse than Coffman at QB? It looks like to me Harper would be atleast on par with Coffman in the passing game, and he would be a hell of a lot better runner. I still can’t figure that shit out. But who am I to question Bill.
doesn't he have/had a bum shoulder?
I thought i remember that last year, maybe not.
by WillieWannabe on Sep 9, 2010 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Insert rude comment about evaluating the band here: _______________________
There has to be a reason Harper is at WR. Maybe he’s just not a passer. Sure, he did throw for a TD at Oregon, but how many attempts did he have? I wonder what the differences are between Sammuel Lamur and Harper. Both athletic, both pretty big, neither has much of a reputation as a QB, but would be frightening to a D at QB in an option or play-action option look.
I hope we find out in the ISU game.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton
Sorry man
sometimes your comments just baffle me. Just ignore me though, I’m just another minion like most of us.
Anyway, yes there has to be a reason Harper is at WR. Maybe Bill was in hopes Lamur would prevail and be a viable dual threat QB.
That's alright, I apologize too for my mini-rant and being petty
There is too much athletic ability from what we’ve seen of Sammy and Chris to let it go to waste as 3rd string QB or occasional WR target. We’ll see something out of them, I’m sure.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton
I'm the optimistic "homer", and here's how it's done
I’ve been an optimistic one around here lately, and here’s how I see us getting to 9-3.
We’re past UCLA, and I assume UCF doesn’t upset us, and we beat N.Tx.
The Iowa State game is huge. Gotta win it. I am assuming we beat KU.
I group the games in the following pairs, and believe we’ll win at least one in each pair:
(Neb and Tx.) (Baylor and O-State) (MU and CU). If we win at least one in each of those pairings, we are 9-3. And believe it or not, I believe our best chance to win each (in the pairings) is both Neb and Tx. Don’t know why I feel that way, but I do. If that happens, we’re 10-2 and probably playing in the Championship Game.
Remember, K-State beat Texas Tech in the very first Big XII game. I think the Coach wants to paint a masterpiece this year, and that is what he’d have if he won the very last Big XII (as we know it) game too.
But Coffman has to step up and be a solid "B" QB for us to get to 9-3 or better.
oh hail the Purple and White
I agree on how we can get those 6 wins, but
The pairs are where you lost me. I don’t consider us having any “automatic” losses. Including last year, Bill’s shown the ability to completely out-coach and have the players completely out-play the opposition. So I agree we “can” win every game.
If I’m going to group up teams and have us “win” one of those games, I’d have NU, UT, MU, and OSU in one group and CU and Baylor in the other. I still won’t go on record even stating we’ll win 8 games, but those groupings make more sense to me. From the beginning of the season the UCLA game was the toss-up for me whether we’ll go 6-6 +/-1 game. So now I’m sitting at 6 or 7 wins.
And besides, if we beat both Nebraska and Texas this year – 10-2 would be a disappointment :)
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
My logic on the pairings ...
I agree that we can win any and all of these, and the Coach can out coach most of em.
I grouped them because 1) we will be definite underdogs against both Neb and Tx (and we will pull one upset from that); 2) we will be slight favorites or slight u/dogs against Baylor and O-State, and we will win at least one of those (Baylor scares me – our first true road test); (3) we will pull one out on the road against either CU or Missouri. Just the ebb and flow of the season. We do this and we are 9-3, but again, Iowa St is key. Of course, if we don’t beat them, we aren’t that good and 7-5 will be a fine year. Assuming Coffman comes around a little, don’t you feel like we can go 4-4 in the conference and get to 8-4? ?
oh hail the Purple and White
Possibly, but it's still too early to tell.
Missouri just scares me. They’ve man handled us pretty well lately and I don’t see that changing in Columbia. With our schedule, with the exception of Mizzou, It seems like the winnable games are all on the road and the toughest teams we’re going to see are at home. That’s one of the main reasons I can’t share your optimism.
Even against some of the lower-Big 12 teams, it’s always extremely hard to win on the road.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
How much would KU love to beat KSU after their disastrous start to the season?
I can’t imagine they’ll go bowling, but beating MU and KSU would make for a very happy Jay-chicken nation.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton
That would be about the worst day ever...
Even if we won the north I might not recover from a loss to KU at this point.
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
On the other hand,
I don’t think that, say Texas was terribly worried about us the last couple times we played, and that didn’t exactly work out well for them. So, on some level the things we “don’t have to worry about” are some of the thing I worry about the most. In other words, “Don’t tell me worrying does no good. I know better. The things I worry about don’t happen.”
I get your pairings now, but 4-4 in conference is no improvement from last year
So, we go 4-4 in conference, same as last year? I just think we are a better team than last year; Texas is down; I think Nebraka’s defense is down from last year (yes, their offense will probably be better). We lost two non-con games last year. We should be 4-0 on that this year. We just have to win one more conference game than last year to get to 9-3. Emminently doable, IMHO.
oh hail the Purple and White
Except that KSU didn't win a single true road game last year
Baylor isn’t a walkover anymore (I would be unsurprised if Baylor pulls off an ‘upset’ of one of the front runners in the south this year with Griffin going nuts), Snyder always has trouble in Boulder, MU is still a better team than KSU, and KU has to salvage something this season. I think KSU will beat KU, but I’m skeptical of the other three right now.
But, if you’re right and Coffman can turn into a reliable 150-200 yds per game, 1 TD, no picks guy, then I think KSU will beat everybody but MU on the road.
I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton
It's the schedule as Sean pointed out.
Last year we played the weaker teams at home and the tougher teams on the road. That led to victories at home and losses on the road. This season’s schedule is the opposite.
While I think this team is much better than last year’s, as well as better than KU, CU, ISU, and BU, it’s all about where you play each other.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
Just wanted to say...Nice writeup.
It’s nice to have a little discussion around here. If i had any writing ability or could assemble my thoughts in a somewhat readable manner, i would throw a little more out there.
Anywho, Kudos.
by WillieWannabe on Sep 9, 2010 8:01 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You underrate yourself
Those two little sentences were constructed nicely, IMHO, and evidence fine writing and thinking ability.
oh hail the Purple and White
Agreed
With the Synder silent treatment over the summer as usual, it’s nice finally watching games and talking about things. It’s hard to talk about vague generalities for 3 months…
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
Thanks, it's nice to be appreciated.
And ditto what Furnace said. You seem to have a reasonable grasp of spelling, punctuation and capitalization, which gives you a pretty good leg up on a lot the other people who think their thoughts deserve to be on the internet. (And you managed to work in the word “kudos”, +5 bonus points.)
Great thread
Thanks for posting, grmann. I apologize for not moving it to the front page, but by staying at the top of the FanPosts, it looks like it has kept the discussion going.
For all readers, feel free to use the FanPosts and FanShots to post your own opinion or a story you see that is interesting. We will promote as much as we can to the front page. By all means, feel free to post something and get some discussion going.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
Thanks for noticing
It would have been nice to make the front page, but I figure inspiring some good responses is the true measure of a good post.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
