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Talking Tuggle

I'm as excited as everyone else about Tuggle signing with the Cats. He is built like a man, and definitely "looks good getting off the bus", as they say.

990313_medium

via vmedia.rivals.com

He is also saying the right things (subscription required).

I came in with an open mind, since this was my first time coming to Kansas. I was excited to how everything was coming together - the team, the fans, the community. I also liked how K-State had been on me the longest time. When I got up there, everything just made me feel comfortable.

He has good bloodlines, as the son of former NFL linebacker Jessie Tuggle of the Atlanta Falcons, and he had significant interest from other D-1 schools, though the "big boys" weren't on him. The subscription-required article I linked above notes that he was heavily recruited by both Mississippi State and Virginia, as well as several other non-BCS conference schools.

With all of that said, though, he is not posting preternatural statistics at Blinn -- at least through 122 pass attempts, including 37 at Boston College (3 games), and 85 at Blinn (4 games). Granted, it's a small sample, but after the jump, I'm going to go a bit sabermetric on him. (Try as I might, I couldn't find Michael Bishop's Blinn statistics for comparison purposes. I'm only judging Bishop off of his 13/8 TD/Int ratio in his junior year, and 23/4 TD/Int ratio his senior year.)

Star-divide

First, an explanation of the statistics I will be using to evaluate Tuggle is in order. I will be focusing on four basic statistics: YPC (Yards gained per carry), YPA (Yards per passing attempt), Total TDs (Rushing/Passing/Receiving), and Interceptions. (I would have also looked at total turnovers here, but I couldn't find a link that told how many fumbles he has lost.)

Here's the raw stat-line on his 122 attempts between Blinn and BC:

49 carries, 257 yards, 5.24 YPC
57-122, for 896 yards, 7.34 YPA
18 Total Touchdowns (12 passing), 10 Interceptions, 1.80 TD/Int ratio.
(Note: I had to remove the table I had this info in, which included the breakouts for Blinn versus BC, because I couldn't make the format work.)

Two things jump out at me from these stat lines. First, he's not a very accurate passer. This isn't of HUGE concern, since if he's the starter, we'd be running a more option-based offense, but he'll have to improve on that sub-8 YPA for us to be successful on offense next year. He will also have to DRASTICALLY cut down on the picks. As an example, Carson Coffman is completing 60.5% of his passes, for 8.41 YPA, with a 5/2 TD/Int ratio. Sure, Coffman's YPC is an anemic 1.7 because of sacks, but he's added two more TDs there, for a total TD/Int ration of 7/2. Over a similar sample-size at Blinn (4 games), Tuggle has produced 14 TDs (8 pass, 6 rush) against 7 interceptions. 

Does Tuggle's playmaking ability outweigh his penchant for turnovers? I'm not sure. His ratio of TDs to interceptions is 1.80 over his first 7 collegiate games, while Coffman's is 3.50. I'm not asserting that I wish Coffman was a junior this year, I'm just pointing out that there could be some massive growing pains next season, and some of the same people now celebrating his signing, might even be calling for his head. Don't forget that Michael Bishop's 23 touchdowns, 4 interceptions year was preceded by a 13 and 8 year. Overall, Bishop produced 22 touchdowns (13 passing) and 8 interceptions for a 2.75 TD/Int ratio his junior year, with an 8.42 YPC, before exploding for 37 touchdowns (23 passing) against only 4 interceptions for a staggering 5.75 TD/Int ratio.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe Tuggle -- as exciting as he is -- will immediately transform our team from a 7-5/6-6 lower-middle tier team to a 11-1/10-2 BCS challenging team, like Bishop did. I could see him helping us to improve to a solid 8 win-type team next year. But, there are other weaknesses (defensive speed, anyone?) which were not an issue with that 1997 team, that must be addressed before we approach elite status again. Tuggle is not the panacea for our problems, but simply one piece of a puzzle that needs slotted together over the next two years.

Poll
Will Justin Tuggle win the starting quarterback job next year?
Yes
59 votes
No
8 votes
Let's wait for the spring game to decide
46 votes

113 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

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I have a little bone to pick.
I don’t believe Tuggle — as exciting as he is — will immediately transform our team from a 7-5/6-6 lower-middle tier team to a 11-1/10-2 BCS challenging team, like Bishop did.

…Bishop didn’t. “He” transformed us from a 9-10 win team to an 11-win team. If Tuggle “merely” performs the role of Chad May, I’ll be content.

I am now channeling Will McDonald's optimism.

by jonfmorse on Sep 28, 2010 9:19 PM CDT reply actions  

True

I should have clarified that I only meant that he’s not going to return us to the heights where Bishop brought us. One of the reasons is that there are more missing pieces on this team than there were around Bishop (which I did point out), but another is that — as you note — we have further to go now than we did back then.

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 28, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

I should have clarified that I only meant that he’s not going to return us to the heights where Bishop brought us. One of the reasons is that there are more missing pieces on this team than there were around Bishop (which I did point out), but another is that — as you note — we have further to go now than we did back then.

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 28, 2010 9:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Don't know how to delete this comment

I intended to make this a reply to Jon above, so I copied it there when I realized that I hadn’t hit “reply.” However, I can’t seem to figure out how to delete it now. Is that not possible, after you’ve hit “post”?

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 28, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

As soon as you post, it’s official!

Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.

by mystman995 on Sep 28, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mwahaha... only I (and TB and Panjandrum) have the power of deletion.

We hold your posts’ life in our grubby hands…

But there are replies now, and I’d to delete those as well.

by BracketCat on Sep 28, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re: Poll

I don’t think many people will be expecting an 11 win season next year with Tuggle at the helm. I do, with the addition of the Brown brothers along with some other upgrades, do believe that we’ll be a better team next year. 8-9 wins next year is a pretty reasonable prediction considering we will “probably” go 7-5 this year with Coffman taking snaps.

Upgrade? Yes. Drastic program defining upgrade? No.

Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.

by mystman995 on Sep 28, 2010 9:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Still the doubters?

We are 4-0 with N. Tex remaining (that’s 5 wins). You think we will go 2-5 remaining in conference? I am much more optimisitc. Snyder likes this team; it is buying into his “system.” I think 9-3, at the worst. That is assuming no key injuries. Texas is way down this year.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Sep 30, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Every realist needs a dreamer

to keep things balanced, right? (And vice versa.)

I’m not presuming N. Texas a win until the clock winds down to zeros in the 4th quarter Nov. 27th. On paper we should win, but at 4-0 the reality is that we have nothing guaranteed to us beyond 4-8 up to 12-0 as possibilities. It should prove fun to be along for the ride as the team navigates the remaining 8+ (some positivity now!) games!!

'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert

by VegasCat07 on Sep 30, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you meant to say 9+ games :)

A bowl game is a pretty safe bet right now.

Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.

by mystman995 on Sep 30, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still "cautiously optimistic" with this team.

I’d be much more optimistic if we blew the other three teams out. And it all comes down to how the schedule is playing out. I’d be much more positive if we flipped the teams we are playing at home against the teams we play on the road.

Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.

by mystman995 on Sep 30, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

His completion % bothers me

Yeah, Snyder doesn’t require super accurate QBs. Ell was only 52% in 2003 (as far back as I can see). But completing such a low percent against JUCO teams doesn’t look good. Less than 50%? Yikes. However, 15 YDC is pretty good, so maybe he’s in an old-school NFL offense, where passes are only for big yards and you run the ball for shorter gains.

I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton

by Sean T on Sep 28, 2010 10:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Clarification

His completion percentage at Blinn is actually just above 50%. Even still, with an option attack, completion percentage isn’t all that important. Bishop was right around 50%, as was Beasley. I couldn’t see Bishop’s Blinn stats, but he wasn’t much more than 50% in either of his KSU years, I don’t think.

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 28, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've noticed recently quite a few posts

referring to stats or a need for old stats and a noticed lack in mainstream statistics in how far back they are kept/posted. Here is a link to a site I use a lot when trying to dig up things like this (note: I am not sure if it is of any help relating to JUCO stats or not…).

LINK

'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert

by VegasCat07 on Sep 29, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bishop was 56% in his senior year

And since it wasn’t a lot of dropping it off to the back, but a lot of firing downfield, that was pretty good.

God, he was something special. I still feel bad for Michael about that fumble. No one who played that hard should have finished like he did. He’ll always remain my favorite ever college player.

My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)

by MrHappyMushroom on Sep 30, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Christ..

…am I the only one who didn’t know that MIchael’s first cousin is Jamie Foxx?!

 Weird!

My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)

by MrHappyMushroom on Sep 30, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Count me as the second

person to not know that until now… Where did you pick up that tidbit??

'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert

by VegasCat07 on Sep 30, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

My view on that game

Bishop’s fumble was huge, no doubt. However, I will ALWAYS maintain that Mike Stoops threw that game. It’s just too convenient that he kept blitzing, with press coverage, long after A&M kept burning us against the blitz, and then just HAPPENED to take a job working for his brother at a conference rival like the next day. It greatly benefited the Stoops brothers to NOT have KSU playing for the national championship that year, because I don’t think that Tennessee team would have beaten us.

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 30, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Watching his tape leads me to believe

he’s improved his passing a lot. I think he will be pretty darned good. And what if we go 8-4 this year, then is 10-2 possible?

Bitchslapping Texas since 1997

by mjk7166 on Sep 29, 2010 9:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Good question

I personally don’t think so, if only because the schedules will be so different next year. We will have 9 conference games, instead of 8, meaning that we might have an unbalanced schedule of home/away games, unless they go with the 1 game at a neutral site proposal. Either way, I think a conference record of 5-4 next year is a likely scenario, so depending on the non-conference slate, an overall of 7-5 or 8-4 seems like it’s in the cards for next year. I think there’s a greater-than-zero chance we go 9-3/6-3, but I see 10-2/7-2 as quite unlikely, given that we’ll be breaking in a brand-new QB and (hopefully) some new, faster defensive players.

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 29, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

yea..good point about the 9 conference games

Guess we’ll know more when the schedule shakes out.

Bitchslapping Texas since 1997

by mjk7166 on Sep 29, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus a game AT Miami

In September, that’ll be a bitch.

by BracketCat on Sep 29, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I had forgotten about Miami until a few minutes ago.

I think next year’s projections need to start at a “most likely” assumption that we’ll be 2-1 entering conference. That seems to make a 7-5 record the most likely possibility, with 8-4 being an ambitious goal, and 9-3 being a dream season.

by K. Scott Bailey on Sep 29, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

And the 2010 season

still 2 weeks short of nearly half over…

:-P

'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert

by VegasCat07 on Sep 29, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

From the you heard it here first file

If we beat Miami, the worst we go is 9-3, with 10-2 a real possibility.

We replace our two hardest games every year NU/UT or OU with UT and OU every year, so that’s a wash. We get Baylor every year now, so that’s a plus most years.

I think we beat either OU or UT, but lose a snoozer some where along the way.

Yes I know this is a ridiculous premise not knowing what our team will really look like let alone the other nine programs. However, if/when it happens I shall point back to this day as the day you heard it first.

by BlackCats on Sep 29, 2010 3:07 PM CDT reply actions  

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