K-State Slate: 12.2.10
Not much going on out there right now. The football team is in a holding pattern until a bowl bid is announced, and men's basketball doesn't play again until (late) Friday night.
Police are investigating the threats directed toward Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe, which led to him not going to Lincoln to present Nebraska with its Big 12 North trophy, which in turn caused Nebraska fans to become apoplectic for about the 1,284,583rd time this year.
The NCAA has ruled Cam Newton eligible. Basically, they ruled that no punishment will be handed out to players whose fathers or "friends" or "handlers" or "advisers" ask for money for their commitment. I guess in one sense, that's fair enough, because it doesn't sound like Newton himself was involved in asking for money. I'm guessing most players aren't involved. But if this is going to be the NCAA's precedent going forward, we've entered a brave new world of college sports.
Donald Trump is lobbying the University of Miami to hire Mike Leach as its head coach. It would be downright scary what his offense could do with the talent he could theoretically recruit at Miami. But, c'mon Mike, I know you want to come to Manhattan instead and be our offensive coordinator and head-coach-in-waiting instead? Right? RIGHT?
Don't miss this CBS piece about Chris Henry. He died almost a year ago, and his mom decided to have his organs donated. This Thanksgiving, she met with the people whose lives were changed by that decision. I highly recommend you watch this somewhere where people won't be asking you why you have red, watery eyes. (Thanks to The Beef at Rock M Nation).
And finally, I'm going to take a moment to address the continuing mindset that the Big 12 somehow missed out by not adding TCU, because my response yesterday left out a lot of the details. In a vacuum, with no context, TCU seems like a good program to add to any conference. It's located in a major metropolitan area, its football team has gone undefeated the last two regular seasons, and it's very well funded for a school outside a major conference. However, when you look at the characteristics of the Big 12, you see quickly why adding TCU does the conference no good.
I have yet to hear a convincing argument that the Big 12 needs to add teams just for the sake of adding teams. Twelve isn't a magic number. There's nothing that says you can't survive as a BCS league with 10 schools. The Big East and Pac-10 have been at or below 10 schools for years. Now granted, the Big East is sliding quickly into relative irrelevance nationally, but do you expect that to happen to the Big 12 with established programs like Texas and Oklahoma? Or emerging programs like Missouri and Oklahoma State? Look at the Big East and find me even one program that is anywhere near as established as UT and OU. I guess Pitt would be the closest, but they're on a decades-long slide.
So if we don't need to add teams just because 12 is a magic number, then why add teams at all? The answer is that you add teams if they bring value to the conference (read: TV sets, translation: money) that is greater than the dilution of the existing money pool that occurs because they are added. If someone can put convincing data in front of me that shows TCU will do that for the Big 12, then I'll change my stance. But I don't believe such data exists. TCU is a small, private school in Forth Worth that can barely fill its already-small stadium in years when it has gone undefeated in the regular season. They aren't going to do anything for the Big 12 as far as TV ratings in DFW that UT, OU, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech don't already do. The bottom line on this point is that the only school that I believe brings in so much TV value that it would be worthwhile to add is Notre Dame. BYU may be close, but that's still only a maybe. Other schools, such as Memphis, New Mexico, Louisville, Colorado State, and others would at least bring in new TV markets, although with them it's doubtful they move the needle enough in those markets that they would be good additions.
Obviously, there aren't a lot of good expansion candidates if the Big 12, for whatever reason, needs to add programs. At this point, I think the conference should be perfectly happy to stay at 10. And if full-blown realignment comes around again this next offseason, then I wouldn't sweat it too much, because if that happens we may be headed for true superconferences and the landscape is going to be so radically altered that we won't recognize it.
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Because it would make for a better athletic conference?
I’m not saying that would be the case for TCU (although in football it certainly would be true), but why does money have to be the only determining factor? That is what I don’t like.
Yes, in the current environment, money decides everything. But that wasn’t always the case, and there is no reason it has to remain that way. Like I said before, it may be the way things are, but I don’t have to like it.
Furthermore, we don’t have to reinforce the idea that money should be the only factor. If the fans are vocal enough, there is a small chance that the league officials might hear us and put in a school that deserves to be in a major conference rather than one that just brings in more money. OK, there is no chance that will happen, but we don’t have to shut-up about it.
Forward into Battle
I like your idealism,
but money has decided everything in high-level collegiate sports for a long LONG time, Chris.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 2, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
Not back before they realized its earning power
And my point is, the world doesn’t have to remain the same. That isn’t idealism, societies have changed time and time again throughout history. All it takes is the people deciding that a certain way of doing things is no longer acceptable. The only way to make that happen is to challenge the status quo and not propagate the undesired message.
If we don’t like the way money rules everything, then we need to stand up and say, “No, this is unacceptable,” and pressure our administrators to take action, and teach our children that it isn’t acceptable. Over time, things will change. That isn’t idealism, that is reality.
Saying, “well, things are the way they are and we can’t change them,” isn’t being a realist, it is being a defeatist.
Now, if you like the way things are, that is a completely different argument.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
Realistically, there's no going back to a more "innocent" time,
if such a time ever even existed — and I’m not convinced it did. Unless we go back to the leather-helmet-days, there have ALWAYS been schools who knew what a cash cow sports could be — and maximized the return on that knowledge. My main problem comes when the NCAA enforces their draconian and arbitrary eligibility rules in such strange ways. Kantor is ineligible, yet Newton can play? Only a naive rube believes that Newton didn’t know what his dirty dad was doing.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 2, 2010 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
I'm all with you on the NCAA
And yes, I was referring to the leather-helmet-days.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
Well, we're not going back there,
which is why I said you were being idealistic. It’s just not realistic that the NCAA, the bowl games, the school presidents, and all other interested parties are going to respond favorably to people pressuring them to stop sucking at the teat of major college football.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 2, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not talking about turning back the clock, either
Nor am I talking about immediate change, which is the problem with idealist. They think they can make everything happen right now.
I’m saying, we need to change the culture that says it is permissible for money to be the ruling factor in our daily life. That kind of change is entirely possible and would lead towards something different (not leather-helmet-days, but at least one where not all decisions were made based on money).
So, in essence, my point is that we don’t have to sit here and say, “TCU shouldn’t be in the Big 12 because of money.” That is a defeatist attitude, unless you believe yourself that money should really be the only determining factor. If you really are fine with money being the only determining factor, then you would presumably also be fine with KSU going to the MWC, since we are definitely not something anyone would want for revenue purposes alone.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 8:57 AM CST up reply actions
I'm interested in hearing,
how you think that school presidents in the Big 12 (or any other major conference, for that matter) will be convinced to admit schools that, when admitted, decrease that president’s school’s revenue stream. The Big East let TCU in a desperate move to shore up their chances to maintain their BCS auto-bid. You mention below that at some point, fans will start to lose interest. I really don’t think so, since if they were, they’d have lost interest by now. It’s just not happening.
So, let’s pretend I’m “President Bailey” of Big School U. I currently have a revenue stream from our division 1 football team of about $20 million. Adding the University of Medium, and Middle State is on the table. Both have been very competitive in mid-major conferences, but neither has anywhere CLOSE to the revenue streams of the schools in my league. Adding them takes my revenue stream from ~$20mil to, say, around $15mil. Convince me I should vote to let them join the league.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 2, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
First of all
The emergence of College sports as an economic juggernaut is a relatively recent phenomenon and not guaranteed to last. It may last through our life-times, but I think in it’s current incarnation it will not.
A good example is Baseball. It used to be king. It is known as “America’s Pastime.” Well, it is now clearly third-fiddle to Football and Basketball (though still a big earner professionally). That can happen to college football.
To convince Big School U, though, I’ll post my argument in the next reply.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
MLB still brings in way more money than the NBA and is very clsoe to the NFL.
I don’t see your point.
Should have checked my numbers first
But the fact is, by perception, MLB is third-tier.
I don’t watch much of either Basketball or Baseball, but most people I know don’t really watch MLB on TV anymore, but still watch B-ball and Football.
Anyway, the point is, MLB once reigned supreme, and now it doesn’t.
Just like college football won’t necessarily always stay on top.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
What's going to take its place? LaCrosse? Fencing?
No, big-time football is here to stay. It may take a different shape, but it’s not going anywhere as a cash cow.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 2, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
*Cough* NASCAR *Cough*
What’s going to take its place? LaCrosse? Fencing?
:-)
by WillieWannabe on Dec 2, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Funny guy, you. :)/
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 2, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
actually, I'm doing a fanpost now
my response was getting too long, so look for that in a bit
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
One more retort, and this one is market-oriented
Another reason all the decisions shouldn’t be based on money is the simple fact that the fans don’t care for it. Eventually, and it will happen, the people who run the college sports machine will overstep, people will lose interest, and the whole thing will collapse.
We could be close to that right now. There is no rule or law that states that college sports will always be economic juggernauts. If people lose interest in college sports, they will fall. That could happen by not having a believable product, resulting from totally screwed up conferences with only teams that have big markets playing for it all and us leftovers begging for scraps.
If all you needed was to be located in a big market, how some Syracuse isn’t a football powerhouse? The answer: Because there are many things way more important than money that determine the success of a football program. For that matter, there are things more important than TV markets that determine revenue generated by an athletic department. That is just one of the most obvious pieces that it obscures all the other pieces that people don’t notice, like branding. Branding is not set in stone and can be created/destroyed relatively easily.
Anyway, the point of all that rambling is this: Fans don’t want to watch a product that is entirely determined by how much money it generates for the already wealthy. After a time, if the perception that everything is done for money persists, then fans will tune out. This will decrease revenues and eventually college sports will fall on its face.
Either that or they will convince fans that doing everything for only money-based reasons is what they want, in which case fans will be cheering for teams that make the most money, not have the best football.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
I'll be interested to read your fanpost
because while I like your passion and agree somewhat with where you’re going, I think its pretty obvious that K.Scott is right that money talks. This has been going on in college football for a long time, dating back to when the Ivy schools were national powerhouses. Simple economics is the issue: football feeds athletic budgets that need to underwrite the rest of the “Olympic” sports, which are necessary under Title 9.
And yes, while the college football arms race as it currently exists is unsustainable in an economic environment that is sour and in a country that faces very real debt pressures, by the same extension less disposable income means more people sitting in front of the TV watching games (rather than going to them) as an affordable entertainment outlet. There are only so many revenue streams for schools to tap beyond ticket sales, licensed apparel, donations, etc, and TV is the most lucrative. Thus, conferences are looking for footprints that provide them with larger TV markets. The flip side is that many major urban environments are more prone to pro sports than college sports, and unfortunately for conferences many major universities are in rural locales (which is why less-than-stellar programs like New Mexico, Memphis and UNLV are brought up in terms of conference expansion because they are located in mid- to large population centers).
As for Syracuse, there are simple reasons for its recent demise (4 years of having Greg Robinson as coach being the most obvious), but you need to remember that it is not located in a major market and that no school (or group of schools) “owns” the NYC tv market. None. And that will never change. Its a pro sports town – period. Greasy Big-10 commish Jim Delaney can keep on dreaming that adding Rutgers-Cuse-UConn will garner him that market, but he’s only deluding himself.
Just because a decision was based wholly or partly on monetary considerations does not make it a bad decision.
In fact, they’re generally pretty good decisions. Athletic departments represent a significant accumulation of effort and resources and that accumulation simply cannot be squandered, at least not for very long. Athletic departments have to pull their own weight or close to it, which basically boils down to needing their revenue to at least be close to their expenses.
Anyway, the point of all that rambling is this: Fans don’t want to watch a product that is entirely determined by how much money it generates for the already wealthy.
The existence of professional sports would seem to disprove that claim.
It would seem to
Except your ignoring everything else behind it. Yes, they generate money for the wealthy, but is that why fans watch it? No, they watch it because they enjoy it. The NFL has a revenue sharing system that pretty much leveled the playing field and made the average product more competitive. As a result, the NFL is the most popular sport in America.
This decision was not necessarily the best individual decision for say, San Fran, or the Giants, who could have dominated NY Yankees style, but by raising the fortunes of the entire league they ended up making more money than if they had maintained the each man out for himself mentality.
I am not against decision’s being made partly on money, as I already said, but if that is the only reason then there is a problem, especially when it concerns college.
Forward into Battle
by ChrisP Wildcat on Dec 2, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
I agree college football's greed may eventually be its undoing, but
the NFL was the most popular sport in America by the 1980s (at least) and it had no salary cap then.
Fans don’t think about revenue-sharing when they watch the NFL. They watch it because they like it; same as college football. What the schools, conferences, teams, owners, players, etc, do with the money will not prevent fans from watching the sport any more than it will make them watch it.
That being said, I do think you’re right in that if college football wants to survive it needs to give up the pretense – held by the “big” football schools, the Big-10 conference and odious toads like Larry Scott and Jim Delaney – that they can have all the money and cut everyone else out from the rest. The big schools need the little ones, if for no other reason than to have someone to beat up on each Saturday. More and more people who otherwise follow college football will tune out if 50-60 odd self-proclaimed “big” football schools decide to cut off the rest of the others and play in their own league, level, whatever. I know as a KSU fan I want to watch my team play – even if its against North Texas – rather see them than Ohio State-Michigan or a stirring Penn State-Purdue matchup. Same goes, I believe, for fans at Mizzou, Kansas, Boise, Louisville, North Carolina, West Virginia, Rutgers, Colorado State, etc, etc.
I have nothing to do with this.
Innocent, blameless, my hands are clean. So there.
My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.
On Newton,
I guess the NCAA is saying that the guy from MSU who says that Newton called him (in tears) to say, “The money was just too much” is lying. Seriously? I mean something REALLY stinks here, that they were able to turn this around so fast (when their money sport — college football — was getting a black eye) yet Selby, Kantor, and that Renardo kid from last year twist in the wind for months and months?!? I cry foul.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
For all the crap people give Snyder about scheduling
It seems that Osborne is of the same mind.
What stood out to me was this quote from Osborne:
“We’ll have a demanding schedule as it is.”
On whether to have a OU-NU home and home to commemorate the “game of the century”.
Forward into Battle
Not that anyone will realize that EVERY school does the same thing and stop giving Snyder (and KSU) crap
Fire Chris Cosh!
Well, the flack Snyder got for the "cupcake" non-con scheduling
predates the BCS. Then a program could lose an early game and still be in the NC conversation. Now with the formulas and the computers’ input, one loss makes it extremely difficult to be in that conversation. So whereas in basketball one or two losses in a tough non-con schedule is actually better for tournament seeding than zero losses in an easy non-con schedule, in football every school has wisened up to how little is gained from scheduling tough opponents. Yet another reason the BCS is bad for fans of the sport.
Anyone see O-H...I-O prez back off his comments from last week?
He’s spot on with his physical description of himself. All the while reading it, I was expecting to see some sort of correspondence from a University President of Nevada, Fresno, TCU, Boise St, or something…
Oh and as far as the Miami Job goes...
Monday footballscoop.com reported:
“CaneSport.com is reporting barring a last minute glitch, Jon Gruden to Miami (FL) is a done deal. According to the report, Jay Gruden will have the title of offensive coordinator.”
So don’t feel so bad Tim Fitzgerald, you’re not the only Rivals.com site to report false info about a dream hire showing up at the school you cover!
Just the era of instant news media we live in...
Being first to have the scoop ranks higher than the need to be 100% (or close even) on your info.
friends at the ralphie report
Say CU has a new coach but since they’re not in a bowl this year, they’re officially no longer a big 12 football team, so does anyone really care?
only care ...
nope just joking I don’t really care.
The time for calm and rational discourse is past, now is the time for senseless bickering -Anonymous the Younger
by Anon_the_younger on Dec 2, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd for sensible commentary on TCU to the Big East.
TCU to the Big East is a desperation move for both. The Big East is desperate for enough football relevance to keep it’s BCS slot and TCU is desperate to get on track for a BCS slot. The Big 12-2 was not involved because the people in charge of the conference are not desperate, and rightly so, I might add.
Dumb
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5876716
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
NCAA president understands Cameron Newton backlash
Really?
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
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