Wildcats finish exhibitions with a drubbing of Washburn
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 7, 2010 11:07 PM CST
in Men's Basketball
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PrintI don't like the college basketball exhibition season much. I fail to see what is gained by decimating a much smaller program, that couldn't be gained from simply holding a purple and white scrimmage. In fact, the competition level of such a scrimmage would be significantly higher than that faced during most (maybe all?) of the exhibition games that Division 1 schools play. With that said, I'm sure that there is some logic behind playing such meaningless games, right? Right?
Oh, and to payoff the headline, the Kansas State Wildcats did manage to squeak by Washburn, 90-44, to close the exhibition portion of the season at 2-0. If anyone can make a case for these two games as accomplishing anything more than could have been accomplished by an intrasquad scrimmage, please do so in the comments, and with your votes in the poll.
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Nothing all that much is gained for us personally,
but it is nice to get some money to some of the smaller schools in Kansas. Newman is a private school that just moved up to D-II three years ago and so any money that they can get is always nice. I guess the one thing I would say that is nice about us playing this is that we get to play other people who don’t know our offenses and aren’t cheating against each other on defense.
Dammit!
You weren’t supposed to make an actual coherent argument, Tony! :)
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 7, 2010 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry man,
I’m from Wichita, and I almost went to Newman so I know how hard it is for them to be able to have money (they had to raise tuition somewhere around 3-5% when I looked at going there). Also, I’ve played basketball for a long time, and I’ve been one to cheat some on defense in practices, and also have had it done so it gets kinda old and is nice to see how it works against other teams
Seriously, though,
I can see the point about playing someone who doesn’t know the offense. I would just argue that the drop in athleticism and talent of your opponent kind of balances out any gains from them not knowing the offense.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 7, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
A-These schools won’t get many chances to play against future NBAers unless they play K-State and KU. I’m sure getting to play a game against them and on their floors is a big highlight, even if they do get drummed.
B-It gives our guys a chance to play a game or two against a completely different defensive and offensive schematic and see how they adjust to how another team does things. I think it also helps the new players a lot in adjusting to a new team and style of play.
A tiny bit
I’m actually going to say there might be a little bit gained by sticking the freshmen against these players that they haven’t gone up against before. If nothing else, they get experience going against a different style of play than what our own team would do.
I guess the other thing is that we get to mix and match personnel as much as we want. If we were doing an intrasquad scrimmage you’d probably have to split the team in half ahead of time, presumably trying to keep both sides even in talent. I don’t think you’d want to switch players from 1 team to the other in the middle.
Bailey
I think your getting smashed with this one.
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
I hate you all. I mean it. A lot.
May locusts eat your crops, and termites infest your wooden shoes!
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 1:59 AM CST up reply actions
You may hate us...
But what would you do without us?
Well, I would smote less people with crops plagued by locusts, and termite-infested wooden shoes.
And smoting is an underrated pleasure, so that would suck, so I guess I’ll just have to live with you guys. But, you’re really going to regret going against me on this when your crop of lima beans is eaten by locusts, and when your shoes start getting drafty in the cold Kansas winter!
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 2:10 AM CST up reply actions
It's a good thing I don't like lima beans,
and have shoes from this century
People who wear wooden shoes are very offended.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 2:21 AM CST up reply actions
Oh no!
Not the Dutch! Whatsoever will I do?
Let one of them MFers kick you in the nuts with those wooden shoes,
and see how much you’re laughing THEN!!! :O
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 2:34 AM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing I could outrun them...
but I never thought of that either… It’d probably be funny as hell to see it happen to someone else though
Oh, it's ALWAYS funny until you get kicked in the nuts by a woman with wooden shoes.
Believe me, I know.
It’s a long story, involving an even longer night of devilishly divine debauchery with drunken Dutch damsels. And, no, I don’t want to talk about it.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 2:43 AM CST up reply actions
Why bring it up then?
"I refuse to write on the chalkboard because I refuse to rock chalk, at all times." -The Forum
The user formerly known as EMAWrising
Courting the sympathy vote.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 2:50 AM CST up reply actions
By the way I must ask...
Are you one of the two votes that says you’re always right?
Of COURSE not!
Why would you POSSIBLY think that?
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
Oh I don't know...
but it is fun messing with ya. I mean I gotta give you a hard time
I voted "YES!"
because no matter how much you want to, an intrasquad scrimmage is not going to ever bring out a 100% effort. Granted, the Washburn’s and Newman’s of the world won’t bring out 100% for 40 minutes, but let them hit a game opening hot 3-pointer or two and BAM you suddenly turn it into high gear “just in case” if not to avoid the stare.
I would say both the intrasquad scrimmage and exhibition games are valuable to a team as the coach can pretty much do as he pleases to prod his team in different ways to see the reaction – without the risk of back-firing in a loss-that-counts sort of way.
The argument could be made that the 1st teamers from Washburn/Newman are not up to par with the KSU bench players – especially this year and last – but I would say it is close and the “not part of our team” aspect propels it ahead in value to the team of a scrimmage.
An injury to a player is also higher when ALL TEN players on the court are from your team…
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
I don't enjoy watching the scrimmages...
…at least not like I enjoy watching the regular-season games, but they do have some value. In addition to what VegasCat mentioned, I’ll note that you have to play defense against an offense you don’t know like the back of your hand. Against your own teammates, you’re going to know their tendencies and the sets they’re running better than you would those of another team. Granted, the opponents are smaller, slower and less talented, but you still have to think more on defense than you would ordinarily.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Nov 8, 2010 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
They're beneficial for all parties involved.
Gives fans something to see. Allows the school to sell tickets and make some money. Makes money for the smaller schools. Gives the smaller schools a chance to recruit and tell a kid that he’ll be playing against D1 talent and likely be on tv if he’s from the area.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Remember FHSU?
I voted yes. Last year we almost lost to Fort Hays State University in an exhibition game. Some may say so what but after this almost embarrasing loss, our boys woke up and starting playing Frank Martin basketball. They realized that no matter how small the school is, you cannot overlook anybody. We went on to have the best season in our history. My second point is look how nervouse we were against Newman. If we would’ve started our season off against a respectable program we could easily have been 0-1. We have tough opponents early on the schedule this year and we could use as many warm-up games to work out our kinks and see who responds well. Besides, exhibition games are more for the fans to see the new recruiting class.
money, MoneY, MONEY!
What else do you want to know?
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
To Be A Little More Serious
Fans will come out to see the team in a game like this, where they wouldn’t come to a squad scrimmage. By that, I mean those fans who live an hour or so away.
Having been (years ago) on one of those squads that got creamed by the bigger boys, it was also of great value to the smaller school squad. Believe me when I say that the fraternity of basketball coaches is a little more close knit and helpful to one another than perhaps the football fraternity is. Bob Chipman not only got $15K for his program Sunday, but his players picked up a lot of valuable information about themselves and their teammates.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
Ok K. Scott this is why you schedule scrimmages...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5782664&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
To avoid this regular season opening debacle
I know I've been joking a lot in the comments here,
but do you really think that Frank would let that kind of thing happen? Bruce Pearl is a lying, cheating, snitching, sunuvabitch, who deserves lots of bad sports-things to happen to him. I can definitely see the point that you’re making though.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Also, after reading that article, the loss was only an exhibition,
not a “regular season opening debacle.”
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
Still confused.
You called the Tennessee loss a “regular season opening debacle.” I don’t understand where you’re inserting sarcasm there. I usually enjoy a good sarcastic reply, but to me it just looked like you thought that Tenn lost their season opener, and that such an embarrassment was one reason that exhibitions are good — so that if you lose them, it’s not your season opener.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 9, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I think you have the confusion backwards here...
I mean I never said that this was “a regular season opening debacle”. Quite clearly there are the three words “to avoid this” in front of that phrase. Which of course is the point, especially if you are ranked preaseason, that early exhibition games do not count against you. They allow you to try out several different lineups, rally your team, and give your young men a different group of people to go up against. The other team might also play a different style of basketball not experienced during practice. For instance, up tempo, zone, press, etc. which allows for more of a learning process without the pressure of worrying about a win or loss. Maybe the word “this” should have read “a”? As of course now Tennessee is not penalized for having lost that game.
I think it's pretty clear from his use of the word "this" and not "a"
that he thought Tennessee had dropped their season opener. I did to, at first. It’s not even that big of a deal.
by K. Scott Bailey-Alt on Nov 9, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
I have been:
Defeated. Destroyed. Devastatingly decimated.
While I bow to the wisdom of the crowd, I reserve the right to hate the exhibition season. I think it stems from the 90s, when we had a potentially decent team (I think it was during the Askia Jones years) and an important player (I don’t remember who) went down in one of these games. I’ve hated them ever since.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 8, 2010 11:11 PM CST reply actions
Now yes, injuries do ruin exhibitions
How often do injuries in exhibitions happen in the NFL? WAY too often.
Fire Chris Cosh!
The worst thing for me about the Washburn game
was the lack of any K-State dunks, while giving up a couple to Washburn. Even with Jamar on the bench, we have CK, Wally, and Rodney who I know can all dunk. I’ve seen them do it. I’m hopeful that at least some of the newcomers can, too: Asprilla, Southwell, and Williams all should be able to.
Ban the dunk!
Go back to the Lew Alcindor rules – no dunking – kids would learn how to shoot a 12 – 17 foot jumper. I am dead serious. I hate the dunk (unless it was Dr. J – he gets a pass).
oh hail the Purple and White
Spudd Webb too
Any guy who is 5’5" who can win the NBA slam dunk contest – he gets to dunk.
oh hail the Purple and White
My Dad always wanted the basket raised to 12 feet
It wouldn’t affect the women’s game, but boy, the guys would be hosed.
Fire Chris Cosh!
I think it would affect the women's game.
It takes some SERIOUS strength to shoot from outside at a 12-foot goal.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 9, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
For the record,
I voted with my alt account in this poll, as a sort of joke. I was kind of hoping someone would notice and say something about it, like about me having to vote twice for myself, and that STILL not swaying the vote, or whatever. I was going to note that I think it’s only my mom and 8 of my cousins that voted for me, but then a user in another thread brought it up in a manner that questioned my integrity, so I decided to just make a post here saying that’s what happened, and that I was just doing it as a joke. (It’s not like the vote was even close anyways.)
So, that’s that, I guess.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
Yes.
All along, I’ve been Cam Newton, masquerading as a big Cat fan. It’s how I’ve hidden all those payments from Auburn. I put them in my top-secret BOTC account. How did you uncover my secret?
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 9, 2010 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
DAMMIT!!!
I knew my tech guy would screw me over!
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 9, 2010 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
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