Something You Might Have Missed: How Coach Martin Got Greenberg a Technical
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 2:08 PM CST
in Men's Basketball
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PrintThis is something I've not seen anyone talking about, but Kansas State coach Frank Martin -- in my opinion, at least -- used one of his timeouts last night simply to get Seth Greenberg a technical foul. This is not in any way a criticism of Frank. I think strategic timeouts like this happen more often than people know. It certainly happens more often than the media reports on it. I thought that this is what had happened, even yesterday, as I first watched the game. And in rewatching the game today, I'm certain of it.
Greenberg had been chewing on the Atlantic Coast Conference crew all game long. I think most people watching that game could feel a technical foul coming at some point. Well, with 5:30 or so left in the game, and the Virginia Tech Hokies still within a manageable 8 points (57-49), a wild scrum occurred that saw (depending upon how the statisticians scored it) up to 5 changes of possession within about 4 to 5 seconds. Apparently, Greenberg felt that a foul should have been called on the Wildcats during said scrum, and he was completely apoplectic on the bench.
After Jamar Samuels finally scored the layup, I was a bit confused as to why Frank used a timeout. That is, I was confused until there was a technical foul called on Greenberg. At that point, I thought, Frank is a freaking genius! Having seen this strategy employed in the past (both as the recipient of the technical, and as the coach calling the timeout to see if the other coach will get the technical), it's a fantastic move. It created a 4-point possession (after Jacob Pullen converted the 2 free throws), taking a precarious 57-49 lead to a much more comfortable 61-49 lead.
Now, will Frank admit that he did this? I doubt it very much. But I don't think there's much doubt that the 4-point possession we had with just over 5 minutes left in the game is a credit to the basketball "street smarts" of one Frank Martin.
So, what do you think? Was there some other reason Frank called that timeout? Or do you agree that he called it to give Greenberg a chance to get a technical foul?
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I don't know?
Hail to the Purple, Hail to the White
Wildcat in spirit, Wildcat in fight
Hail Alma Mater from sea to sea
Onward forever, Hail Victory!
Ah, come on!
Be decisive! :)
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
Let's here it now.
Several people are voting “No”, but no explanation for why you call a timeout, with momentum and a 10-point lead, and 5:15 left in the game. Why?
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 2:20 PM CST reply actions
I definitely never thought of that before...
I know he was subbing Jake in and out on Offense and Defensive trips down the floor. So maybe that’s what it was?? Did Jake stay in to play D? Maybe he wanted to change up the D or press? I dunno. You definitely may be on to something though.
Yeah, Jake stayed in. And we didn't press afterward either.
It’s a strategy I’ve seen before, and as soon as the tech was called, I thought that’s what Frank had done.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Never even crossed my mind
IF that is what Frank did, I like it. I’m sure Greenberg doesn’t, but I’m equally sure he’s done the same thing.
Fire Chris Cosh!
Sweet, sweet belt buckle Frank is sporting in that pic ...
but it’s missing several large diamonds.
by Itchy n Scratchy on Nov 17, 2010 2:49 PM CST reply actions
I'm STILL interested to see why the people voting "no" think he called it.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 4:39 PM CST reply actions
If Greenberg didn't get T'd up would you have posted about Frank's attempt?
Seems like a case of correlation vs causation to me. It’s totally possible that Frank called this TO in order to see if Greenberg would give the refs an extra earful and get the technical. But it’s also equally likely that Frank called the TO for any number of reasons. After all, we typically don’t analyze why every TO in the game is called.
On a side note, not that I put much value to his opinion, but Gottlieb doesn’t sound too impressed:
“As for K-State, its shot selection was way too quick without Pullen, and though Spradling gave them a bounce at times, he took too many quick 3s and is not a good on-ball defender like Martavious Irving or the other guards for KSU. Freddy Asprilla looked better, but is still not the legit low post scorer that we were sold.
But it is early and KSU is still deep, still tough and Rodney McGruder looks improved, as do several other Cats. They should be far more efficient with Kelly…"
I've seen it happen a bunch of times,
but of course, if Greenberg doesn’t get T’ed up then I wouldn’t have NOTICED it, even. I’d have just thought it was a strange time to call a time out. But since I’ve seen it happen before (on much more than one occasion), after Greenberg got tech-ed within 5 seconds of the timeout call, I though, That was a BRILLIANT time out!, especially given the fact that the game was still kind of “up in the air” at that point.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
Could definitely have been a brilliant TO
but I voted “No” as a “taking the field” kind of bet.
Oh, I don't know about that, YB.
I haven’t yet heard from anyone as to what “the field” might actually look like. He didn’t sub out Jake (which was one idea), he didn’t set up a full- or even half-court press. I just don’t know why he calls it there (with all the momentum moving in our favor), unless he thinks G’berg is so angry he has about a 90% chance of getting a tech.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Anytime Gottlieb is talking, I hear the whole Charlie-Brown's-Teacher thing, "Waw waw waw."
Seriously, the guy’s a d-bag, and I can’t stand to listen to him. He may have a point here and he may not. What I say from our guys behind Pullen was impressive, though. and as for Freddy, he got really unlucky on the hook shot he took, and has only shot 4 times on the season, so I think the jury is still out on him.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I give some credit to Gotlieb for
being one of the first(he might have been the first) ESPN guy to drop an Octagon of Doom reference on an ESPN2 telecast.
Plus, i actually like his insight…He is usually pretty fair to KSU, at least last year, from what i remember.
by WillieWannabe on Nov 17, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure I'm not being fair to the guy,
but I remember when he was just some thug who stole crap at Notre Dame (I think?), got kicked out, and transfered to Okie Light. But I can only think of one guy off the top of my head (Bilas) who works college basketball for ESPN that I actually like, so that’s probably part of it as well.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
yeah...
I remember him being a cocky little bastard back in college…but he’s grown on me in the studio. Course that is always subject to change.
by WillieWannabe on Nov 17, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
That's what Doug does. He's programmed to find flaws.
Doesn’t mean they can’t be fixed or that he’s right about all of them.
I rewatched the sequence...
and it’s possible Frank wasn’t happy with the sloppy play in the previous minute or so. KSU was being very careless with the ball. V Tech started to trap on the top as well, and he might have wanted to rework the offense. jmo.
I guess that's possible.
I’d still say that calling a timeout there is odd, given that the Cats really had a lot of momentum on their side. And Frank doesn’t really have a problem with “uglying it up” as they say, so, while your scenario is possible, I still think it’s more likely that he looked down the bench, saw G’berg going nuts, and wanted to give him a chance to get t-ed up.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't see the game...
But honestly this seems like the most logical answer. Anytime your team starts getting sloppy, especially in a game that was still pretty close, a good coach will call a timeout to calm his team down. Martin has a high basketball IQ and knows that. Let’s say he doesn’t call the time out and the sloppy play continues for 1 or 2 more plays, then how’s the game look like? One person that doesn’t know how to use his TOs is Roy Williams. He will let the game get out of hand before using one, Martin is smarter then that. Like I said though, I didn’t watch the game so I am basing everything off of what I’ve read here.
Good win for you guys and way to represent the Big 12. Good luck to you and keep it up. Can’t wait til Jan 29th. We’ll see ya in the Fieldhouse.
by hawkinwihita on Nov 17, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
See, that's the thing.
We had ALL the momentum at that point. Yes, it was sloppy, but it was sloppy in a way that had stretched a 2-4 point lead to a 10-point lead.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 18, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
This is what I was going to say, but he beat me to it. I didn’t even notice the T until we were shooting free throws since it was a little loud at the time in the Bram, for good reason. I noticed the sloppy play, but with the defense playing as it was for both teams and it being the second game, it is safe to assume that sloppy play would happen anyway. They play college ball though so they ought to be able to play without the sloppiness.
Anyone else believe college players ought to be able to make free throws better than our guys do?? I know this was mentioned a couple days ago, but I’m angry about it. They are in college (they’ve been shooting them for a long time), it’s not a guarded shot, and it’s not that far. Practice, practice, practice and you score easy points. 50%? I did better in Calculus with foreign teachers, understanding almost every other word he said, sometimes less.
GO STATE!!!!
Watching the replay,
he didn’t even look mad, though. He just kind of walked out of the bench area, as G’berg came charging past half court. But the “Frank just wanted to yell at someone” is probably the most logical alternate explanation I’ve heard yet.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Nov 17, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
There is no burden of proof here because there is no way of knowing.
A TO was called. It may have been to coax a technical. It may have been to yell, substitute, organize next few defensive sets or offensive plays. It may have been to tell the team he loves them. We will never know.
It’s a really interesting idea thrown out there by KSB, but there is no way anyone will ever know. If Frank did do this he’d never admit to it. So I don’t think there’s much to gain from analyzing this.
I voted NO because:
You framed the question: “Do you believe Frank Martin called a timeout hoping that Greenberg might get a technical foul?”
Well, I suppose Frank may have been “hoping” for a tech. Or he may have been hoping for a lolipop. Or some angry face time, to burnish his image.
I think he was just pissed at the sloppy play that preceded the timeout. I know I was.
oh hail the Purple and White
I voted yes...
with the caveat that it wasn’t ONLY to coax a T on Greenburg. If he can kill that bird with the same stone as the one shot at the sloppy play and lackadaisical performance that was developing, then he would call that TO 10 times out of 10. I can say that I am 100% certain he didn’t mind that Greenburg got the technical foul during the time out. Nice and calm for Jake makes the free throws even easier. :-)
'Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.' --Jim Halpert
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