Postgame Reaction: Nebraska

by TB on Oct 9, 2010 9:01 AM CDT in Football

As time ticked away in the second half, and I amused (or annoyed, or offended, take your pick) the people around me at the game by celebrating to an excessive degree every single play that was even the slightest success, I actually had somewhat of a flashback to a similar game I'd seen played in this stadium, between K-State and Nebraska, eight years earlier.

In fact, the 2002 game had resulted in a nearly identical score, but with the totals reversed for both teams. A quarterback broke off several long runs. One team looked utterly inept most of the day.

Unfortunately, this year there was no Ell Roberson for K-State, and the quarterback breaking the long runs was Nebraska's Taylor Martinez.

There are no two ways around it. Thursday's game against Nebraska was an unmitigated disaster for K-State. While I had expected a loss all week, I was not expecting a blowout. Perhaps I should have been. Nobody in college football runs the zone read better than Martinez, and no quarterback is faster. K-State's defense has struggled with mobile quarterbacks, and the zone read in particular, has an undersized defensive front, painfully slow linebackers, undisciplined safeties, and Chris Cosh as its defensive coordinator.

We're going to forego the usual format of these posts after the jump, because there is just about nothing to like and everything to dislike about that performance.

As usual, I talked to Panjandrum on the way back from the game. We both agree that there isn't much we learned from this game that we didn't know before. Some of it we had perhaps been able to minimize or brush aside, but no more. One of this team's greatest strengths is that its coaches know their personnel and know how to maximize their chance at winning. That means grinding it out with a big offensive line and big running back, avoiding giving up big plays on defense, and thereby shortening the game and not beating ourselves.

Against teams with an inferior or approximately equal talent level, that's a recipe for success. Against those teams, the goal is to make sure you don't beat yourself. But when you're up against a top-10 outfit like Nebraska, with superior speed and skill at almost every position, it's not going to work. Nebraska is good enough to take away the one strength of the K-State offense and fast enough to exploit the manifold weaknesses of K-State's defense. Going forward, that doesn't bode well, because there are few teams left on the schedule with whom K-State is approximately equal (or superior) in talent level. Off the top of my head, I can only name KU, Colorado and North Texas. All three of those are road games.

Oh, and did I mention we have lost our best wide receiver, Brodrick Smith, for the season with a broken leg?

For four weeks, we had been able to look at an undefeated record and consider the reasons for optimism. Now it's time to look at 4-1 and consider the reasons for realism. Next week's game against KU, always a huge game for establishing intrastate superiority, looms larger now. As mentioned, we only have three games left against teams with relatively equal talent levels, and we need to win those games. It starts next Thursday in Lawrence.

Now, that's not to say that it's time to throw in the towel against teams like Oklahoma State, Missouri and Texas. As an aside, you'll notice I'm not listing Baylor. I'm not doing so because while their overall talent level is probably not much higher than our own, they have the only quarterback we'll see the rest of the year who can even come close to Martinez. Robert Griffin now officially scares the hell out of me. Anyway, back to OSU, MU and Texas. Those three teams will likely beat K-State this year, but there's a good reason that Nebraska is a top-10 team and those teams are not. If K-State can execute effectively against those teams and get a few good breaks, then it could take those games to the fourth quarter with a chance to win. Of course, blowouts are possible, too. That's just the nature of this team right now.

As much as it stings to lose a game like that to Nebraska, the season is not lost. Our hopes of a 9-3 or 8-4 season are gone, but 7-5 is still in play and bowl eligibility is still a fairly realistic goal. Once again, it all starts next week in Lawrence. I officially declare it to be hate week.

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Comments

7-5 is a step back from last year

as far as conference play goes. I know our road schedule is tougher this year, but 7-5 is not “progess.” I know 7-5 is possible, but if we don’t get to 8-4, I would consider this year to be a significant step back, and we better hold off on building those new restrooms on the west side of the stadium.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Oct 9, 2010 10:46 AM CDT reply actions

Wait.

Weren’t we 6-6 and non-bowl eligible last year? Care to explain 7-5 and bowl eligible can be considered a step back from that?

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 9, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions

He said "as far as conference play goes"

7-5, I’m assuming a win at UNT, that we go 3-5 in conference. That is technically a step from the 4-4 last year.

Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.

by mystman995 on Oct 9, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions

Ah, okay.

I guess I just view it as, if you don’t win the conference, then the only thing that matters is improving your overall record enough to go to a bowl game.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 9, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions

Five of your last seven games are on the road

and the two home games are Texas and OSU.

I think 7-5 would be a positive step, not a negative.

by Chris Wilson on Oct 9, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

Especially given the weaknesses of this team. Any bowl game is my objective, and has been since the NU game last year.

I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton

by Sean T on Oct 9, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Why can't all Husker fans be like you?

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 9, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Disagree

Last year, this team was 4-6 against D-I opponents. 7-5 would mean 6-5 against same. That’s a small step forward.

You may not see this as progress and I would call it very minimal progress. But a “significant step backwards” doesn’t make much sense to me.

My blogs: pakagankarachi.livejournal.com (dormant)
burmahunkalove.livejournal.com (occasional signs of life)

by MrHappyMushroom on Oct 10, 2010 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions

K. Scott

The picture at the top of the article is the one I mentioned earlier…

by jtarkman on Oct 9, 2010 10:56 AM CDT via mobile reply actions

Ah, okay.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 9, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions

11-1 in 2010

I had picked this gm as possible lose this year. If you look at the Neb gm, it was the Defensive Coordinator who is to blame in this gm. Had we kept last years “D” Coordinator (Now at ILL) the formations/schemes would have been the same and a better understanding for the secondary.

The whole team was very sluggish (out of Step) and Daniel did not attack the holes like he did in the first three gms. K-State has always been good one gm and bad the next especially during TV gms except when we played USC and Texas. We have to start paying our assistant coaches more to keep them here in Manahttan. I would like to see about bring Barrnet back as coach in waiting and bring the defense to top 5 again.

GO CATS

by dshea1863 on Oct 9, 2010 1:50 PM CDT reply actions

I've Seen

All of the previous comments about our QB just doing what he’s been asked, etc. Barf, barf.

Many of our previous QB’s would have made Nebr pay for the way they cheated up with their safeties. It seems we have totally forgotten how to run a screen or play action. Coffman may not turn it over, may have a better grasp on the offense and audible into the “right” play more often, but, he commands NO respect from the opposing team’s deep defenders. After the first half against UCF, they simply started letting the offside receiver roam relatively free. The corner or safety would be as far as 20 yards off of him.

I agree that 6-6 and a bowl is an improvement at this point, although I still think we’ll see 7-5 and that’s what I’ve said from day one. The fact is, we can make 7-5 with either Klein or Lamur. We may not make 6-6 with Coffman.

If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

by ArkieCat on Oct 9, 2010 2:48 PM CDT reply actions

I agree about our defensive coordinator.

I can’t tell you all how UN-impressed I’ve been with our defensive gameplans in our first 5 games this year. I would bet I can count the amount of blitz’s we’ve called on my two hands I’m using to type this comment. When you consider most teams run 60 + plays a game and times that by 5 that let’s you know how pothetically conservative our defense has been this year under Chris Cosh.

If we try to sit back and play our “bend but don’t break” defense against teams like Missouri they are going to score 50 points on us… and I’m not kidding or exaggerating. Think of how many times over the years you’ve seen teams dial up pressure and be successful, only to go into some sort of “prevent” defense late in the game and allow teams to march right down the field on them. It’s like our defense is in some sort of prevent all the time and I can’t figure it out for the life of me.

Also, if Snyder is going to continue to play call the way he is we need to start Klein or Lamur at QB so we can at least hint at a threat from that position in our running game. DT is good, but often it looks as if he’s tired and instead of putting Powell in the run him into the dirt. I would argue that whether DT is tired or not we need Powell in the ball game for his speed and shiftiness. We don’t have a home run threat on offense besides Powell, Quarrels and Smith, who now has a broken leg.

In short, our problems are in my opinion more coaching than personnel.

I'll have what you're smoking!

by ksuwild on Oct 9, 2010 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions

No, the problems aren't mainly with coaching

I can’t speak as much to Coach Snyder’s offensive game plans, but I was a defensive coordinator, so I can try to explain what Coach Cosh might be thinking. We apparently have NO team speed on defense this year. I had a similar difficulty during my time as a DC. The main way you hide this kind of deficit is by softening up your coverages. That’s where “bend but don’t break” comes in. A way to keep some pressure on the offense is through stunting your DLs, and — especially against a team like Nub — bringing a run blitz from time to time. One thing you do NOT do is blitz a ton. If you do, you’re setting up your slow defense to get burnt a LOT.Your blitzes have to be well-timed, and infrequent enough to make them truly a surprise when they come.

Listen, I’m sure Coach Cosh WISHES he had the personnel to be less passive on his defensive play-calling, but he just doesn’t. Until the 2011 boys arrive (gawd, Arthur Brown can’t get here soon enough!) we’re pretty much stuck with what we have. The only other option would be the rather radical suggestion I’ve made around this site before: move some of your bigger safeties up to the OLB positions, and let some of your faster youngsters fill in the safety spots. While you’d give up some physicality by doing that, it would be a MASSIVE upgrade in speed.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 9, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree...

I’m not saying we need to blitz ever play, or every other play. But we do need to blitz enough so that opposing quarterbacks have to make decisions under pressure.. Hey, if we could get pressure rushing 4 down lineman I’m all for it… but it’s painfully obvious that we are not able to do that with our depleted front 4.

Blitzing does put pressure on the corners and safeties but it also forces quarterbacks to throw before they are ready, or run to places they don’t want to run. We might be a little below average in the speed department when it comes to our linebackers but our secondary is NOT slow. So why not bring heat occasionally to show some different looks on defense?

David Garrett and Terrance Sweeney are not slow. Stephen Harrison and Mathew Pearson are not slow. Tysyn Hartman, Emmanuel Lamur, Troy Butler, and Ty Zimmerman are not slow. I would bet money they would be up to the task if they were challenged, but unfortunately they will not be… because we have a coordinator with no balls.

If we are going to put some extra pressure on any part of our defense, it should be our secondary, because they are the best part of our defense. According to articles I have read, Cosh just has a defensive philosophy to sit back and not blitz. It’s not a personnel thing with him, it’s a philosophy. God, I wish it was Cosh that went to Illinois and not Koening.

It is not in our best interest as a defense to sit back and give qb’s all the time they need to pick us apart whether it be running or throwing. That is a sure fire way to look slow on defense. Be reactive all the time, don’t force your gameplan, just sit back and take it in the you-know-what. We need to be aggressive and enforce our will instead of sitting back and giving offenses what they want.

I’m ready for a defensive coordinator that can mix it up and show some different looks on defense. Snyder was so successful with man to man coverage, and timely blitz’s in his first stint. If Cosh can’t figure it out we need to find someone who will.

I'll have what you're smoking!

by ksuwild on Oct 9, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions

I know this will sound silly

and since I don’t have much real world experience to back me up it doesn’t help, but…
In the NCAA video games (yeah, see, but don’t give up me yet), when I have teams with speed or inexperience problems I play to my strengths. When I have slow linebackers i have them spy or blitz, keep them out of coverage. Slow safeties are covered by running a zone with corners in man-to-man. If I have a bunch of good safeties and bad linebackers then I shift players around, put the stronger safeties at linebacker. And from what little real life experience I have I’ve learned the same things.
How this relates is, I agree with K. Scott. Snyder is always preaching about playing to his strengths, running an offense around the players he has and not vice-versa. But it seems he’s letting his defense be dictated by a system and not his players. Koening was good because he knew we lacked speed and athleticism at linebacker and so went with the 4-2-5 that required the linebackers to do a lot less and put more emphasis on safeties supporting the run defense and helping in coverage. We have several good safeties, why not let them all play? Hrebec is a team leader and hard-nosed but he just doesn’t have the athleticism to keep up with teams in the Big 12. There are also linebackers with speed that aren’t playing, though I must assume it’s because they just aren’t performing in practice, example is Darhnaz Tigner, he is fast (came to KSU as a corner) and strong but must just be really raw.
It just dissapoints me to see Snyder’s vaunted defense look so terrible. K-State was good all those years because the defense created turnovers and kept other teams from scoring so the offense didn’t have to work so hard. Bishop and Roberson probably wouldn’t have looked so good without a solid defense to cover their mistakes. I guess maybe Cosh just isn’t up to the job all by himself, or doesn’t have the power to do what we all think is plainly obvious.

by jtarkman on Oct 10, 2010 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Some thoughts on RG III

Six min left in game and Baylor needs a TD to tie. It’s 3rd and 13; tech comes with a 3 man rush, and Griffin torches them. Hope Cosh is watching … the 3 man rushing scheme should be BANNED unless you are ahead by 17 points.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Oct 9, 2010 3:04 PM CDT reply actions

And it still sucks horribly

That damned prevent-defense tried to lose the UCLA and ISU game. But then, the Cats weren’t up by 17 either.

I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. - Gen. George S. Patton

by Sean T on Oct 9, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions

K.Scott is right about the coaching...

You can’t ask Cosh to do what he doesn’t have the personnel for. I’m not trying to defend the guy as I remember him at Maryland and the fans there saying all the same things about him (too conservative, etc, etc). But the worst thing K-State can do is react as if the sky is falling because of one blowout loss (which, sadly, we should be used to at the hands of Nebraska and thus not so hyper-reactive). This is the team it is; wins will be hard-earned and losses will not be pretty. Cosh probably would like to blitz on occasion, too, but where are the fast linebackers to bring the heat? Jeff Kelly, Josh Buhl, etc, left this house a long time ago. It would help if Tysan Hartman would remember how to break down to make a tackle, take a proper pursuit angle, or stay home on the deep ball when in pass defense, but he seems to be lost in a 2009 haze of post-season honorable mentions. Otherwise I’d say put 3 safeties in the game more often and use Hartman (or Lamur) to blitz on occasion.
Until the Brown brothers, Justin Tuggle, and the rest of the JUCO transfers for next year’s incoming class are eligible the ‘Cats will have to fight and claw and get some tough wins starting this week. Worst thing to do is overreact and try to pound square pegs into round holes.
That said, the two things I see on the horizon after watching OSU, Missouri and Texas play a few times are this:
1) Changes have to be made at QB, because those teams can score – and score quick. As seen against Nebraska we cannot always hope to dictate the pace of the game, slowing it down to our liking. At the very least some kind of package has to be devised with Sammuel Lamur at QB (and not one-dimensional/run-only packages) and used every game. One way or the other, Klein and Lamur will be competing with Tuggle and Billy Cosh for next year’s starting job and its time to see what they can do after a fair amount of practice reps. We have good speed at one receiving slot (Thompson) and a big, athletic target at the other (Chris Harper), so get them involved and make teams have to at least consider our passing attack rather than completely ceding that dimension or relying on 5-yard slants. A QB that can actually threaten a defense with his arm would lessen the impact of losing Broderick Smith for the season.
2) K.Scott made the point that I’d been thinking for awhile, back to the Iowa State game: put some positions on D up for grabs and let the younger, faster, but lighter players have a shot at them. Make it like the first week of August practice and declare open competition. I didn’t see a lack of speed (except at linebacker) as a problem in Week 1 against UCLA, but since then its been a very different story – partly because in the past two games we’ve faced athletic QBs who if you don’t contain them are gone for 6. The D-line is what we have, and nothing will make it bigger and stouter in the middle until next year when new players arrive. Until then, that’s an area not easily fixed. But against Okie State, with the quick Kendall Hunter and Weeden flinging the ball all around, you don’t need size and strength, you need extra DBs, speed and sure-tackling.
All that said, I’m not sure its panic time yet, even if I don’t see this squad doing much better than 7 wins at the very most. This week offers K-State the chance to regroup and regain some confidence. One game against a more talented, stronger and faster opponent isn’t reason to blow things up completely, just tinker with some things and begin the transition (gradually or suddenly) to a new quarterback.

by CT-K-Stater on Oct 10, 2010 8:07 AM CDT reply actions

Here is a quote directly from Bill Snyder...

“I’m not a fan of ‘bend, but don’t break,’ " Snyder said. “I’ve been involved with it too much. I’m too old for that. We need to be able to put the brakes on on the other end of the field a little more frequently.”

I don’t think Snyder will make the same mistake Ron Prince did when he mistakenly held onto Tim Tibesar amidst a defensive stupor. Snyder wants results… period. If Cosh can’t figure out a way to pressure QB’s, and stop the run, he we be on the short list for coordinators heading out of Manhattan. If he is unwilling to compromise on his “philosophy”, I have a feeling he won’t be around in 2011.

I'll have what you're smoking!

by ksuwild on Oct 10, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions

It's hard to say.

I don’t hold Cosh to blame for everything, but he’s not blameLESS either. I’d like to see him dial up a few more than he does, I can just understand (based upon the talent available) why he might be hesitant to do so.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 10, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Name an assistant coach Bill has fired previously, thank you in advance, I ’ll listen off the air?

by TravonMagee on Oct 11, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions

I have convinced myself

that he would have fired Judas Stoops (who threw the 1998 Big 12 Championship Game) if he hadn’t quit to go work for his brother.

"Everybody gets one chance to do something great. Most people never take the chance, either 'cause they're too scared, or because they don't recognize it when it spits on their shoes. This is your big chance, and you shouldn't let it go by..."

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 11, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Judas Stoops

I see what you did there…

Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.

by mystman995 on Oct 11, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I wasn't trying to be either subtle, or funny.

I genuinely dislike that entire family after what Stoops the Younger did in 1998, and how Stoops the Elder called Steve Spurrier his “mentor” and didn’t even mention Coach Snyder in an interview. On a football level, I despise no one more than that family.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 11, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Not to mention

he is a classless jerk.

by ChrisP Wildcat on Oct 12, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions

I've never understood

why Coach Snyder is still friendly with him. I mean, it’s pretty clear his little brother threw the 98 championship game with all those damn blitzes, when we kept getting burnt. I know that I will NEVER forgive that family for 98.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 12, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Travon - Where are you hangin these days?

I assume you are the TE who lettered in 2002, and what did you think of the 4 wideouts on 4th down on our 1st drive – or – do you not want to go there?

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Oct 11, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Its just a user name pardner, could have been Big Joe Hall or Brice Libel etc.

by TravonMagee on Oct 14, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions

This type of thing CAN become an issue, though,

if you act badly, and people think you’re the actual guy. With the user name you have chosen, just be very careful to not stir things up too much! :)

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 14, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions

agreed

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Oct 14, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions

I've been on a few boards

where they ban you if you take the name of a real person, and are not actually that person. Not sure the policy here, though, so as long as TM doesn’t troll or anything, it should be cool.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 14, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Defensive Stats After 5 games.

Total Defense – 68
Passing Defense – 7
Rushing Defense – 110

Guess what KU might want to do offensively?

by Catbacker98 on Oct 10, 2010 2:16 PM CDT reply actions

These stats are misleading

4 of the 5 teams we’ve played are primarily rush teams. I don’t think our D against the run is great, but it’s not terrible despite the Martinez onslaught. KU will not get close to 200 yards rushing against us. Now Baylor – that’s may be a different story.

oh hail the Purple and White

by Furnace76 on Oct 10, 2010 5:48 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah, but...

If our rush defense stats are skewed at all, it might simply be that we’re amongst the worst 30% of defenses or so, instead of in the worst 8%. We are not even an average defense against the run. If KU wants to beat us, they need to run the ball about 40-45 times, and only pass maybe 15-20 times, if that. And I have a feeling that is exactly what the right Reverend will do.

by K. Scott Bailey on Oct 10, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions