RPI WATCH: 1/7/2010
by BracketCat on Jan 7, 2010 12:00 PM CST
in Men's Basketball
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PrintOur RPI and SOS continue to recover, and should do so for most of the rest of the year. South Dakota was the last major anchor around our neck, and hitting Big 12 play will help to alleviate that negative impact quite a bit.
That, despite IUPUI's home loss to Ohio, an embarrassing affair that dropped the Jaguars to 10-7, although their RPI somehow remains in the Top 100; UNLV's clunker against BYU in Provo; and Iowa State's absolute thrashing at the hands of Duke in Chicago.
A quick note on the playing-with-fire Jayhawks: I think last night demonstrated that this team still relies on Sherron Collins overly much, and a team with an excellent defending guard who also can match the Elevator Man point-for-point in a Chicago-style shootout (cough*jacobpullen*cough) always will have a chance to beat KU.
For most of the game, the Big Three were all KU had, and even they were patently mediocre at times — Cole Aldrich was very quiet in the first half and Wunderkind Henry finished a pitiful 3-of-14 from the field and 3-of-7 from the free-throw line. The entire rest of the team produced two field goals. The Morris twins and Tyshawn Taylor (who was way more interested in fouling than scoring) didn't make a single one.
Deepest bench in the country? Against good competition (which has been woefully lacking in quantity thus far in their non-conference season), I've yet to see it. They better find it fast, because Jan. 30 isn't that far away.
Current Kansas State AP Ranking = 11
Current Kansas State ESPN/USA Today Ranking = 10
Current Kansas State Record = 13-1
Current Kansas State RPI = 6
Current Kansas State SOS = 26
Great Wins (RPI 1-50) = Loyola, Dayton, Xavier, UNLV
Solid Wins (RPI 51-100) = IUPUI, Washington State, Alabama
Bad Losses (RPI 101 or greater) = none
- Loyola (11-3, 2-2) | RPI = 68
- Western Illinois (6-8, 0-4) | RPI = 323
- Boston (5-8, 0-1) | RPI = 149
- No. 14 Ole Miss (12-2) | RPI = 45
- Dayton (11-3) | RPI = 24
- IUPUI (10-7, 3-1) | RPI = 68: Loss to Ohio (63-62)
- No. 13* FHSU (11-1)
- Washington State (11-3, 1-1) | RPI = 72
- Xavier (8-5) | RPI = 42
- UNLV (12-3, 0-1) | RPI = 32: Loss at No. 25 BYU (77-73)
- Alabama (10-4) | RPI = 69
- UAPB (1-11, 1-0) | RPI = 220
- Cleveland State (5-10, 1-2) | RPI = 186
- South Dakota (6-7) | RPI = 252
- Missouri (12-3) | RPI = 70: Win over Savannah State (74-45)
- Texas A&M (11-3) | RPI = 22
- Colorado (9-5) | RPI = 217
- No. 2 Texas (14-0) | RPI = 13
- Oklahoma State (12-2) | RPI = 36
- Baylor (12-1) | RPI = 61: Win over Morgan State (79-63)
- No. 1 Kansas (14-0) | RPI = 7: Win over Cornell (71-66)
- Nebraska (12-3) | RPI = 99
- Iowa State (10-4) | RPI = 138: Loss to No. 5 Duke (86-65)
- Oklahoma (9-5) | RPI = 112
- No. 20 Texas Tech (12-2) | RPI = 33
*Division II Top 25
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Just curious...
did you watch the game or just see box score/highlights?
As for the poll, obviously they wouldn’t be. I can’t think of a single team that could lose it’s best player and fall into that category. Ever.
I think you’re reading way too much into one game though to think that this “team still relies on Sherron Collins overly much.” But your point that KSU will have a chance because of their guard play is certainly correct. In college, all it takes is good guard play to stay with anyone on any given night. The difference comes in a six game tourney – guard play will keep you in it and can get you to the sweet 16, but ultimately you need some bigs to lean on. KU will have that if the Morris twins play like they have been…they won’t if they play like they did last night.
I dearly wish I could have watched it
But I couldn’t. I was hoping Cornell could pull it off last night, but it isn’t like last night meant anything even if KU had lost. It was no different from the Fort Hays game for KSU. Really, I think that game was great for KU. Give the Jay-chickens a fight and make them understand just what they need to do, and then they get hot for conference play. That is exactly what I didn’t want to happen to them until KSU came out and punched them in the mouth. D’oh!
Gotta agree with Sean here
I almost feel bad for Tenn. on Saturday. KU is going to bounce back quick and put a hurting on Bruce Pearl.
Introducing the new 2008 Big 12 Football Champions: OU, UT*, TT*, and MU*!
Now Introducing the new 2009 Big 12 Baseball Tournament Champions: UT, KSU*, BU*, and MU*!
Actually, it was very different from the Fort Hays game
KU put their starters out there and gave it their best effort.
If K-State had done that, we would have rolled FHSU by 20+. Instead, we played Merriewether and Ojeleye each more than 20 minutes, while Sutton played 12 and Kelly played 6.
Not even remotely comparable.
Not to mention...
Cornell and FHSU are not remotely the same either.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
by Owen on Jan 7, 2010 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd have to echo HipHop on this....
This team hasn’t relied too heavily on Sherron this season compared with last. The Morris twins have actually been one of the biggest improvements year over year and for the first time last night they were nonexistent. Xavier as well had his first “bad” game as he really struggled shooting. Basically Coach Self reverted back to last season with his rotation and his gameplan after it was clear that the team was off last night. He let Sherron run the show and everyone was looking for him on the court.
Win a title without Sherron? No Way. The team get’s very young, very fast and doesn’t have an established go to guard if he’s gone.
and without a doubt K-State’s guard play and play in general will put them in a great position to challenge Kansas head to head.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
I think there's a valid point there, though
Last year, there were times when things weren’t working — Texas Tech, Baylor — when they put it on Collins and he couldn’t deliver. Now maybe that’s just the fact that shots don’t always fall, even for a player like Collins, but if you only trust one player to take a big shot, it’s likely going to bite you at some point. Will it be enough to prevent you from winning a national title? Only if it happens during that six-game stretch in March. The odds of any one guard being able to hold Collins one-on-one on an important possession are fairly low, even for the best guards, but in a one-possession game, you only need that one stop.
I just thought it was odd that KU utterly abandoned its ordinary offensive sets to such a blatant clear-out for Collins. Not that it’s such a bad set, as you can’t really help off anyone without excellent rotation, because the other outside players — Henry, Reed, Morningstar — can and will drain big shots, and the inside players — Aldrich, Thing 1, Thing 2 — can and will finish at the rim if Collins passes off. Frankly, in that situation, I think that if Tyshawn Taylor is on the court, you instruct whoever’s checking him to be the designated help defender, because he is least likely to drain a big shot.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Jan 7, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
I just thought it was odd that KU utterly abandoned its ordinary offensive sets to such a blatant clear-out for Collins
Definitely agree, in fact, I felt that the entire 2nd half, it was like we weren’t running any sets at all, very bizarre game
by I need more Esteban on Jan 8, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
if you go back and watch a game from '07-'08...
that’s what we reverted back to. The three man, up top weave. Problem is that everyone was wanting Collins to make the move and go for the shot.
In ‘07-’08, Robinson, Collins, Chalmers and Rush could all create offensively. Xavier certainly should be able to and I think ideally Coach Self wants Tyshawn out there in that set as well.
We were however putting Morningstar out there for defense and he is not a threat to create his own shot. The other person was a struggling Xavier Henry. This led to what appeared to be the blatant Collins offensive push.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
I guess the eye-opening thing for me
was how ineffective two starters and the entire bench were for the overwhelming majority of the game.
Yes, the Morris twins appear improved — until last night. But how much of that was just bad competition? Michigan sucks, Cal just lost to freakin’ UCLA, Temple looks way overrated, and so forth. It just makes me wonder a little.
Oh well, we’ll have all the answers we could want in three weeks. I’m just back on the fence re: Morris twin improvement.
Oh yeah, and Taylor just looks like a lost cause right now. Might as well start Reed or Morningstar; at least they aren’t actively hurting the team, and they understand the value of good defense without fouling.
They haven't really been tested...
…but barring an unforeseen meltdown, I’m still going to assume that KU’s going to be fine. When they’re on, I doubt they can be beat. When they’re a little off, like they were last night, and playing a disciplined and experienced team, they’re clearly beatable.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Jan 7, 2010 9:12 PM CST up reply actions
agree bigtime that we haven't been tested...
it’s disappointing because we have a solid team and one that I think Self tried to test but the cards didn’t fall the right way. Memphis dropped off with Calipari’s departure. UCLA’s early defections finally caught up with them. Michigan and Cal were both preseason ranked teams and have struggled in the early going proving to be not as good. Now Tennessee, a top 15 opponent, is going to be minus four players including 1 starter.
It’s not that Kansas shied away from the competition but boy they haven’t seen much and they need to in my opinion. I personally could care less if they run the table. I’d much rather take 2,3,4 even 5 tough losses while hopefully still securing a one seed.
Along those lines, I’ve always believed that a tough Big 12 is the best thing Kansas could ask for because it toughens up the team heading into March. Big reason why I enjoy both K-State and Missouri being improved. You can’t replicate the environment that comes with an intense rivalry game. In the end it helps.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Didn't watch the game
What I mean is that in crunch time against really good teams, Collins has to be excellent or KU will not win.
Kietzman nailed it today — whenever Collins has one of these huge scoring games, it’s hard to remember them losing. It’s always pretty close, but they always grit it out. But when he takes a bunch of shots and misses most of them, that’s when the Jayhawks get upset.
I’m of the belief that either Clemente or Pullen can have a bad shooting night and the other will pick up the slack. But Henry’s struggles last night make me think that KU doesn’t have a second option like that if Collins ever comes up cold.
Kansas has 2nd options...
Henry was getting looks and going to the basket he just wasn’t converting. I think TB is right on though. If KU has to revert to a Collins first mentality more often they are in trouble. This has really been the first sign this year though that we might have to use that. Normally I’d be pretty confident in Henry with what he’s shown on a more regular basis.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Exactly...
We certainly need to learn to not always look to Collins in tight games. But I’m not overly worried about not having a second banana.
That’s the benefit of having 8 or 9 quality guys in the rotation. We’ve already seen Collins have one of his horribly off games (1-12 for 5 points against LaSalle) and no one even noticed because Henry was going off for 31 in a casual 25 point win. LaSalle isn’t a big time opponent and that wasn’t a big time game…so we certainly haven’t seen Henry prove that he has it in him to be our primary crunch time scorer in that scenario.
But that’s where having a deep and talented team comes into play. Last night no one but Sherron had it working. So we let him do the work. The chances of the entire team being off AND Sherron being off on the same night are pretty slim. If/when that happens, KU will be in trouble. But what team wouldn’t?
by hiphopopotamus on Jan 8, 2010 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
BTW, Jay Bilas appears to agree with me
(for what that’s worth, which ain’t much)
KU’s best player: Sherron Collins. Coming off a 33-point performance against Cornell, Collins took the game over, much as he did throughout last season. Kansas is still young in spots, and several of the Jayhawks are inconsistent. Collins is the only truly reliable scorer.
I'd agree with that as well...
I just don’t think a team needs 2 or 3 “reliable scorers” when it has 7 or 8 semi-reliable scorers.
Would you say that you guys have a reliable scorer outside of Pullen? I guess one could argue Clemente because of how easily he can get his own shot…but I’d be a little tentative relying on a guy shooting as poorly as he has all year.
by hiphopopotamus on Jan 9, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
He won't shoot poorly all year
I thought he came out of the shell a little yesterday and made some big shots.
But we clearly have to get something, anything, out of the bigs for the guards to have any real success.
Still, I’d take the pair right now over Collins and whoever (Taylor?) — at this particular point in time. Poll me again in a week and I might feel differently.
I’d trade you three of our bigs for Aldrich, though. In a heartbeat.
It was good for KU....
I watched the game and knew they would pull it off in the end (ahem…esp when the officials call no touch fouls on Collins’ layups lol). But watching how they responded to real adversity showed how overall young the team is. Taylor getting almost out of control fouling at the end in frustration and no sync on offense. It made me think that if they were playing Kstate or Texas last night it would have been ugly for KU. This gave them the wake up call they needed before conference play. I highly doubt that same inconsistency and frustration will be prevelant a few weeks from now vs Kstate unfortunately, but it’s clear so far Kstate has overcome much more adversity vs top 100 teams and with Pullen leading us I’m quite confident.
Wildcat for life
Totally off topic here for the BCS championship game
Sorry guys, but I don’t have TV, and it is FAR too dangerous to be on the roads tonight and try to go somewhere that has it. Do any of you know a site like hpnutty that I could watch the game tonight?
Might try justin.tv
Somebody’s bound to throw up a link for that since it’ll be on ABC
Introducing the new 2008 Big 12 Football Champions: OU, UT*, TT*, and MU*!
Now Introducing the new 2009 Big 12 Baseball Tournament Champions: UT, KSU*, BU*, and MU*!
With McCoy out, they're looking pretty screwed
Ugly vision of the near future for Longhorns fans. Division looks like OU’s to lose this year.
I don't know about OU...
…they need to get their QB situation figured out. Landry Jones is not the answer.
I’m starting to wonder if Texas A&M might be in the mix.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Jan 7, 2010 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
For a freshman thrown into the fire behind a paper-thin O-line
Landry had a pretty good statistical season. Just sayin’.
Voted no
there is no way in hell. Like a few of my fellow Jayhawk supporters have stated, you can’t take away a teams best and most experienced player and expect to be in a National Title hunt. Getting to a Final Four is hard enough, I’ve seen so many amazingly talented teams not be able to do it, winning a National Championship? Horrendously difficult.
Last night was a crazy game and the first time we’ve seen Sherron go into Sherron mode since last season. It was actually pretty awesome to see that he can just turn it on when needed.
Last night was a bad game for everyone but him, but it was a great game for Coach Self and staff because now they have a whole lot of stuff to go over. Don’t worry, January 30th will be a battle no matter what, I’m sure of it…just don’t you kitties start having dreams of a Big 12 title, that runs through Lawrence.
by I need more Esteban on Jan 7, 2010 6:01 PM CST reply actions
I think you guys might be looking a little too much into this
Teams have bad games. We played probably the worst we have all season, hit a team that was making absolutely everything outside (at least first half) and we still won.
At the same time when we went on the road and murdered a ranked temple team, people probably put too much stock into that.
No team goes undefeated these days (and we certainly aren’t, I think we will lose at least three games in league play but I’m hoping the league is so tough that will win it, a la us going 13-3 in 2008 and still winning the title). Its all about march.
Personally I’d rather have us drop some games in league play if it means we are battle tested come march. We’ve won 5 strait big12s, its all about the tourny now (although I still badly want the big12 title).
KU-KState are going to be epic games. And more importantly for both you cats and us hawks, they will only make us better come march.
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