Can we get a little credit for beating Cleveland State now?

Cleveland State beat #24 Butler tonight to win the Horizon League and an automatic berth in the NCAA Tournament. That's probably bad for us because Butler will likely get into the Dance as an at-large, but we need to get more credit for beating Cleveland State on the road. The Vikings beat Syracuse in the Carrier Dome and Butler tonight en route to a 25-10 (12-6) record on the season.

Surely that's as good of a win as, say, Siena.

almost 3 years ago TB 13 comments 0 recs |

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I'm hoping they move into the RPI Top 50

That would give us 4 such wins.

by BracketCat on Mar 11, 2009 1:37 AM CDT reply actions

Answer: no, sarcastically, of course :D

Just go out there Thursday, beat Texas (for the second time this year) and show up to play KU ‘til the very end on Friday, maybe have a couple things go your way (Heaven forbids this, by the way) and pull out the W, and you are IN. No more worrying about what a win over Cleveland Freakin’ State looks like.

This is what I love about CBB: You win, you keep playing. You keep playing and winning enough, eventually you are going to get a chance to throw your name into the hat with 64 other teams, and at that point, anything can happen. I love, love, love CFB, but it dearly is missing this dynamic.

Question: Do you think having the first round bye in the Big 12 tourney might actually HURT you guys this year? Here’s my thinking: KState obviously has a little work to get done to make the Big Dance. Would having a Wednesday game, where they could crush the likes of a Texas Tech and show how good they CAN play be more of an asset than a bye, and waiting to play UT in the 2nd round, which is a very losable game for you all?

"I log on to RCT after school, and I see the 228 comments on this thread. I actually immediately panicked, because knowing KC, I figured some other fan from another school (most likely Mizzou) came over and said something stupid. Then, KC freaked out at him, and said something stupid (no offense, KC, but this really wouldn’t be that extraordinary for you to pull off) and then there was mass hysteria. I would have to ban people, and warn people, and it’d be mass chaos." - SlowDance

Odds-on favorite to win the "1st Annual Rock Chalk Talk Tournament Pick 'Em Contest" :D

by Andy Edwards on Mar 11, 2009 1:58 AM CDT reply actions

Playing Colorado**

Oops, my bad.

Odds-on favorite to win the "1st Annual Rock Chalk Talk Tournament Pick 'Em Contest" :D

by Andy Edwards on Mar 11, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think so

Another win against a CU or TT isn’t going to help boost anything. I’m glad we earned the 4th seed and received a bye. This means we’ll be fresher against a quality Texas team and have a better chance to run them out of the gym. Usually the more talented, and better conditioned team wins the conference tourney. That extra day off for the top seeds have a lot to do with it. Well, better talent is a big reason too…

Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.

by mystman995 on Mar 11, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Agree with mystman

A win over a Colorado, Texas Tech, doesn’t add anything to our resume. Heck, even just beating Texas probably doesn’t get us in. We need a win over KU, which means making it to the tournament final to be considered for the dance, IMO.

Playing the extra day just would have made it harder to reach the championship game.

by EMAW on Mar 11, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions

I win over CU would probably hurt your RPI

since they have an RPI over 200

by Texas Wahoo on Mar 11, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions

That's why I don't like the RPI

Wins should never hurt your rankings – especially conference wins.

Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.

by mystman995 on Mar 11, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions

The other problem with that theory

is that we kinda looked like crap against CU on Saturday, so I don’t think we would show how good we can be in a third crap win over them. That, combined with the number hit and the lack of rest, makes me very glad indeed that we got a bye.

by BracketCat on Mar 11, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Fair enough.

It was just a thought.

Odds-on favorite to win the "1st Annual Rock Chalk Talk Tournament Pick 'Em Contest" :D

by Andy Edwards on Mar 11, 2009 1:31 PM CDT reply actions

Yes.

I hereby grant you a “little credit”.

They aren’t as good of a team as Siena, but considering it was in Cleveland, I’ll notch it up to a solid W. About equal

It doesn’t change anything, though. You’re still going to have to make the Finals, at the very least, to stake a claim.

by rockchalk on Mar 11, 2009 8:52 PM CDT reply actions

I'm not ready to concede...

…that they’re not as good as Siena. They have better wins than Siena (@ Syracuse, Butler). Siena doesn’t have as many bad losses. I call it a tossup. Granted this would have helped a lot more had Okie State lost today, but this isn’t the blowoff non-conference win like some people think. I’m not claiming it’s Michigan State, but it’s at least as good as OSU did in the non-con.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Mar 11, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Hmm.

Using the eye test, it isn’t even all that close to be honest. Siena is, to put it simply, AWESOME. Everyone on the floor can score, and Hasbrouck is a stud.

Cleveland State is good; Siena is, by a mile, the best team no one has heard of.

With ATM’s loss tonight, though, you guys are in good shape. A comparison between you two would be interesting; and just FYI, but head-to-head means very little. It’s just treated as another game to the committee, as it should be IMO. So, that you beat the Aggies in College Station, while a solid win, gets you zero extra credit as far as any comparisons go between the two schools.

At least, that’s the impression I get from everything I’ve read.

A win tomorrow and you have an argument. Beat us, and you should be in.

by rockchalk on Mar 12, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions

Sorry, I just can't agree

Cleveland State (25-10, 12-6 Horizon)
—Best wins: @ Syracuse, Butler
—Worst losses: WI-Green Bay, WI-Milwaukee, Youngstown State, Wright State, Wichita State
—The Horizon League has a likely at-large school in Butler

Siena (26-7, 16-2 MAAC)
—Best Wins: Northern Iowa, Niagara
—Worst losses: Rider, Wichita State
—The MAAC was going to be a one-bid league

Cleveland State has better good wins and worse (and more) bad losses. I watched Siena play KU in Lawrence. They are a good team, with good players. However, I’m not interested in a team having good players. Baylor has a bunch of good players, and they went 5-11 in conference play this year. Talent alone doesn’t mean you’re a good team. Talent plus results means you’re a good team. When I look at the results above, I simply cannot agree with you that “it isn’t even all that close.”

I also can’t agree that we get zero credit for beating Texas A&M in College Station. It’s not decisive because the committee weighs so many factors. Clearly, no single factor is determinative. Don’t mistake my posts where I discuss some discrete part of our resume as an argument for that particular factor as determinative. When I make the all-encompassing argument, which I probably won’t have time to do, I’ll call it something like “The Comprehensive Case for K-State.” When I throw up a FanShot talking about one non-con team we played, I’m making one portion of the argument. Here, I’m making the point that our win over Cleveland State is at least as impressive as Oklahoma State’s best non-conference win, which came against Siena.

(P.S. — You’ll note any reference to the RPI is conspicuously absent from the above discussion. There’s a reason for that.)

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Mar 12, 2009 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions