Whason Jitlock: K-State Should Fold Entire Athletic Department

by TB on Nov 3, 2008 12:00 PM CST Comment 13 comments

He's been on a bit of a sabbatical, but today we welcome back our old friend, Whason Jitlock.

In case you haven't been watching, there's a real disaster going on in Manhattan, Kan., these days.

Have you watched this K-State football team? I'm not sure I should even call it a football team. The game it plays each weekend vaguely resembles American football, although I think that international futbol games are often harder hitting affairs than what we see out of the Wildcat$ on Saturdays.

It's not going to get any better this winter for Wildcat fans, all three that are left. All that ever is or was of K-State basketball is playing in Miami and Boston, and other assorted NBA cities, these days. After exactly one season of decent basketball, K-State is going right back to 6-10 in the Big 12, which is exactly where it belongs on the hardwood.

On top of all that, K-State is located in Manhattan, Kan. It's not the Little Apple, it's not the Tiny Apple. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's nothing like my college town, Muncie, Ind., which is Eden on Earth. Nobody wants to go to Manhattan.

K-State has never had real success in anything. Oh sure, their fans will try to tell you they were a powerhouse in football for a while, but what did they ever really win other than a fluke conference title in 2003? They'll also tell you they used to have a strong basketball team, but anything that happened back in the days when I weighed less than 300 pounds doesn't count.

So what should K-State do? Their fans will tell you that they need to hire a new football coach. They might also tell you that they have some very good basketball players this year, and a good recruiting class in 2009.

They're wrong. What K-State needs to do is fold up its tent and go home.

There's no use in trying to find solutions to problems that have no solutions. I should know, I've tried to date women. When you're as bad as K-State, there's no reason trying, because you're not going to get a good football coach. In basketball, any good basketball players Dalonte $300K $400K dupes into coming to K-State will flounder under that terrible, corrupt coach they have running the show. Nobody cares about any of the other sports, so the best solution is to just drop sports altogether.

Do the right thing for K-State, Bob Krause. Do the right thing for K-State, Jon Wefald. If you guys care anything about the school you've run for 20 years, you'll keep it just that: a school. We should never hear the term "student-athlete" associated with K-State again.

Well, they can keep the crop-judging team.

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Satire or not....

It brings a realism to our plight.

Are no programs better than what we have?

Would it be better to have 4 win season in Football or have none at all?
Would it be better to have under 20 win seasons in B-ball and no post season or none at all.

Would it be better to end the fustration and have nothing or continue to spiral into the the bitter abyss of hate that we have now?

Do we like complaining or do we actually wish for nothing to complain about.

Imagine that this is as good as it ever will get. We know with the right people, it can improve, but look at our past. Bill built a great program. Got tired of replacing coaches every year or so and most likely all fed up with the crybaby posters his last two years and said the heck with this. We ran him out of coaching, I fully believe this as fact.

We are ungrateful and overly judgemental. Ok, we are approaching horrid in football, it is the price of a coach not realizing his ideal team is too small and too slow to compete in the Big 12. Size matters, in many things, but especially football. Speed is great, but size helps exponentially.

Programs are not built in a year, and are not destroyed in three either. Fire Prince after three if you want, but the alternatives might not come or come at too high a price.

We are #1 in graduation rates in the Big 12. We care about education. Our players are leaders in the class room. Say what you will about Prince, but he is not a negative in this aspect.

I know we want a winning team in all sports, FOOTBALL most likely #1. I know loosing, especially to KU is hard to swallow. I realize we are seeing no major improvement in our team over the course of the season. I’ll still take these fine young men over any team in the country. The why is simple. They are ours. I have seen universities and pro teams with high turnover in coaches, and seens little good come of it. Even the worse of coaches can learn, and I do not think by a long shot we have the worst on the planet.

Look what Huggins hire did, one year and gone to other pastures. It is hard on our kids and hard on the fans. 3 years might not be enough time for Prince, he might need 6. Maybe it will happen, maybe it will not. A new hire means 3 more years of not so good most likely. Then what? Fire them as well?

Be careful what you wish for as it might never be fruitful.

by KaosState on Nov 3, 2008 12:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

There is no doubt...

…we have to temper expectations in the near future in football, because even if we bring in a brilliant coach next year, we’re still going to have a tough time. Look at Texas A&M.

All I want is to see improvement. I will always be patient as long as it’s clear we’re getting better.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Nov 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As bad as it has gotten under Prince, beware the lure of "instant success"

Missouri had a bit of a coaching carousel between 84-94, and it took us a long time to recover. While there were other issues, including an administration that wasn’t willing to fund athletics, a quick hook on coaches hurt us badly.

Al Onofrio was fired, despite good records, because he had a 1-6 record against KU.

Warren Powers was fired because the bowl games we went to under him were all 2nd tier (Holiday, Tangerine). Unfortunately, he got us our last winning season until Larry Smith had Corby Jones in 1997 (14 years).

Woody Widenhofer only was given 4 years to turn around a program that was just 2 years removed from winning 7 or 8 games and playing in mid-level bowls most years. He made slow progress, but I guess he should have returned the program to Dan Devine levels in 4 years, because he was gone after going 3-7-1.

Bob Stull was only given 5 years to turn around the mess after Woody left town. At that point, 3 wins was a good season.

Larry Smith finally turned us around in year #4, because he got local boy Corby Jones and a stud running back who always dreamed of being a Tiger. Brock Olivo. But, he stopped recruiting and was gone after 7 years.

Finally, Pinkel. Who was almost fired after going 5-6 one season. Thankfully, the Athletic Department decided to stick with him, and we finally reached the point that we were at in 1982 under Warren Powers – and have surpassed that by a good deal.

My point is, if you expect a coach to be able to turn around ANY program (unless you’re Bob Stoops and are inheriting OU – or Urban Meyer getting Florida) that is going through a down period, you need to give it time. Ron Prince may not be the guy for your job, but you’re right that getting rid of him means AT LEAST 3 more years of bad football.

From an outsider’s perspective, I wonder if Prince felt the urge to win NOW, and that’s why he loaded up on so many JuCo kids. Not a great way to build long-term, but if you’ve gotta win now to save your job, it’s worth the risk, eh?

I juggle one handed, do some magic tricks and do the best imitation of myself.

Ben Folds Five

by Andy--01 on Nov 3, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He took a gamble...

…and it clearly has not paid off.

I don’t think any of us have any delusions of instant success. We know the kind of hole we are in. I am currently working on a post comparing Prince’s first three seasons to Gary Pinkel’s, making the argument that just because Pinkel was given more time doesn’t mean Prince should. In essence, Mizzou fans could (or should) have seen steady improvement in Pinkel’s teams. K-State has not only not seen progress under Prince, we have seen significant regression in almost every possible way.

Maybe we were flawed as fans and put too much pressure on Prince to win, thus the 16 JuCo recuirts this season. But frankly, I would have much preferred recruiting a more conventional class this season and seen the team go 5-7 as long as it didn’t get blown out. Now, that probably wouldn’t happen no matter what, because our problems are primarily systemic (i.e., our coaches aren’t ready for the Big 12). But the gamble ends up justifying Prince’s ouster even more now because he will literally cripple our program if he continues to recruit double-digit JuCo classes.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Nov 3, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I certainly am not familiar enough with K-State's program

to do anything other than read the comments made on sites like this and form my opinions based on that. What you are saying certainly makes sense, and I remember the general consensus of the people I talked to when you announced Prince being “who?”. I wouldn’t expect that 3 years as UVA’s OC would have qualified someone to be a BCS Conference HC.

Maybe the pressure came more from not wanting to waste Freeman’s talent. While he hasn’t been a terribly successful QB in the B12, he certainly is physically gifted. Possibly Prince felt that the best way to keep from squandering a talent like his (that might not be matched for a while) was to get some JuCos in quickly.

I juggle one handed, do some magic tricks and do the best imitation of myself.

Ben Folds Five

by Andy--01 on Nov 3, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

…I think that was pretty much everyone’s reaction. Bill Snyder produced one of the best coaching staffs ever assembled, and we hired an unknown OC from the ACC. That pretty much sums it up.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Nov 3, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

love the writing on the blog. Very funny, with the self-deprecating humor that is needed by a college football fan, lest he become a Cornhusker.

I juggle one handed, do some magic tricks and do the best imitation of myself.

Ben Folds Five

by Andy--01 on Nov 3, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait...

You forgot to mention how it’s all a race issue.

Pinkel for America '08
http://www.RockMNation.com

by RPT on Nov 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oops

I knew I forgot something.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Nov 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who knew...

Ball State gets its name from Ball canning jars.

by MadCat on Nov 3, 2008 2:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oddly enough I do.

I had applied to go to school there in high school. Of course during the campus tour they had to explain how the school got it’s name and it was named after the Ball brothers who had started the Ball Corporation.

The campus is actually quite nice – unlike the trashy city that surrounds it. Muncie has to rival Lubbock as being one of the ugliest towns in the country. Yes, it’s that bad.

Man do I hate Longhorn fans, well except for the ones that actually went there.

by mystman995 on Nov 3, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs